P-51D

In article . com,
wrote:

As long as warbirds fly there will be an attrition rate. What makes me
NUTS is the people who have the priviledge (and $$$) to own/fly these
irreplaceable aircraft and race them putting them at risk of damage or
total loss. Risking the loss of a piece of history, to say nothing of
the pilot, just for the sake of a 400mph thrill ride is insane. I'd
like to see them all restored to their military condition and flown at
air shows. Much less chance of accidents there IMHO.

Will

I have a friend in CA, who has a whole warehouse full of Mustang parts
that he bought surplus, back in the '50's/'60's.

He refuses to sell to racers for the very reason that they tear the
planes up.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

More importantly, it's irrational to be concerned about not being able to
replace the airplanes. They aren't useful objects anymore (except, perhaps,
for the entertainment value they provide at air races and other airshows).

The Mona Lisa isn't useful either I suppose.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

wrote:

Risking the loss of a piece of history, to say nothing of
the pilot, just for the sake of a 400mph thrill ride is insane. I'd
like to see them all restored to their military condition and flown at
air shows. Much less chance of accidents there IMHO.

Seems like many people are real quick to tell other people what to do with their
money. Most of these "warbirds" never saw any action and arguably aren't
particularly historical at all. Many of the real warplanes weren't worth
ferrying back to the U.S. and were crunched overseas.

Some Luftwaffe pilots destroyed more P-51s after the war than during it. And the
U.S. government paid them to do it.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

In Japan, following the War, I saw a Fighter Group (75 aircraft) of
almost new P-38's have primer cord wrapped around the booms and the
tails cut off. Bull Dozers then pushed the pieces into a big pile and
we either sold at a penny a pound or gave to the Japanese who sorted
the different metals out and re smelted to make things since they
didn't have any source of metal at that time.

What is it they say about beating swords into plow shares???

Big John
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:20:07 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

wrote:

Risking the loss of a piece of history, to say nothing of
the pilot, just for the sake of a 400mph thrill ride is insane. I'd
like to see them all restored to their military condition and flown at
air shows. Much less chance of accidents there IMHO.

Seems like many people are real quick to tell other people what to do with their
money. Most of these "warbirds" never saw any action and arguably aren't
particularly historical at all. Many of the real warplanes weren't worth
ferrying back to the U.S. and were crunched overseas.

Some Luftwaffe pilots destroyed more P-51s after the war than during it. And the
U.S. government paid them to do it.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Peter Duniho wrote:


What's insane is thinking that it's for some reason important to preserve
these planes. As I already pointed out, if they were so important to
preserve, we shouldn't have been building them to be destroyed in the
first place.

Pete

Yuo pointed it out, yes, but it was then, and is now, a non sequitur.

Value of things can change with time. It's not impossible to take something
that was throwaway at one point and have it's value redefined at another
point. Especially if it became historically important and there are only a
veyr few left.

Often when something is built one doesn't realize how important,
historically, it will turn out to be.

Very few things were built to last forever. That doesn't mean that when
there are only a few left, they shouldn't increase in value. civil War
swords were made by the thousands. They are more valuable now than they
were then.

Lots of furniture was built in the 1700's. Much of it wasn't expected to
last forever. Those few pieces that still exist command huge prices. A
simple dough box - a utilitarian piece of gear - made in the 1700's is now
very expensive if it's in decent shape.


--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

"Jose" wrote in message
...
The Mona Lisa isn't useful either I suppose.

No, it's not. It's wonderful that it exists, but there would be absolutely
no suffering in the world should the original Mona Lisa painting be
destroyed. Some people would irrationally bemoan the loss of the painting
(forgetting that the painting WILL eventually be destroyed one way or the
other), but that doesn't make it useful.

Of course, I am assuming you're talking about the original. Most people
have not even seen the original, but there is no shortage of replicas for
those people to appreciate. Likewise, even if the very last P-51 were
destroyed, it would take a LOT longer for there to be no replicas, no
reference, no knowledge whatsoever of it.

Frankly, I don't have a problem with people holding as precious objects like
the P-51. They should recognize the irrationality and futility of doing so,
however (though, of course most probably do not).

Pete

"gregg" wrote in message
...
Value of things can change with time. It's not impossible to take
something
that was throwaway at one point and have it's value redefined at another
point. Especially if it became historically important and there are only a
veyr few left.

If and when the P-51 actually becomes so valuable that it is "historically
important" for them to cease flying, then they will cease. This will happen
because those who deem it so "historically important" will buy all of the
flyable ones and ground them.

Until then, they obviously are not so precious that we cannot afford to have
them flying, even in air races (as if that were somehow more hazardous to
the fleet than other types of flying).

[...]
Very few things were built to last forever. That doesn't mean that when
there are only a few left, they shouldn't increase in value. civil War
swords were made by the thousands. They are more valuable now than they
were then.

Only to people who irrationally place such a high value on them. Many
people wouldn't pay even a fraction of the time-adjusted cost of production
of a Civil War era sword.

To those people who think the P-51 shouldn't be flying: buy your own and
ground it, if you think it's so important.

Pete

Frankly, I don't have a problem with people holding as precious objects
like the P-51. They should recognize the irrationality and futility of
doing so, however (though, of course most probably do not).

Well, if we're to go down that philosophical sinkhole, you had better be
prepared to have all of your best-loved, most cherished beliefs and ideals
shattered.

Taken over geologic time, everything is dust in the wind. That doesn't mean
we shouldn't strive for some semblance of permanence and order -- it only
means that we are, inevitably, finite.

For the purpose of sanity, however, most of us choose to think in historic,
not real, time. While this may not be 100% truthful, it is neither
irrational nor futile.

Thus, we must preserve the Mustangs!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:anZCe.186202$xm3.145092@attbi_s21...
Well, if we're to go down that philosophical sinkhole, you had better be
prepared to have all of your best-loved, most cherished beliefs and ideals
shattered.

Why? I'm not saying that we shouldn't hold those beliefs. Just that they
are irrational.

Human beings are irrational. It should be no surprise that human beings
hold irrational beliefs. More importanly, it should be no surprise to find
that other human beings hold different irrational beliefs.

[...]
Thus, we must preserve the Mustangs!

You are welcome to hold that irrational belief. I don't happen to share it,
but many people agree with you. They are just as irrational about it as you
are.

My comment was simply one of observation, and I probably wouldn't have even
brought it up except for a handful of people here criticizing religious
beliefs as irrational. As if those people didn't have their own irrational
beliefs.

Pete

I'm not saying that we shouldn't hold those beliefs [that P51s
and fine art should be preserved]. Just that they
are irrational.

I'm not convinced that they are irrational beliefs. Fine art brings joy
to (some) people, and restoring and flying warbirds brings joy to (some)
people. Given that, while we all end up dead, we spend a fair amount of
time alive, the pursuit and spread of joy seems like an eminently
rational thing to do.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.