737 off runway, Pearson Toronto

Thomas Borchert wrote in
:

Skywise,

Luftanasa 737


Man, you need glasses or something. The spelling is "Lufthansa". And
the plane is an Air France Airbus. Please pay at least minimal
attention to the facts. Thank you.

Please chill. I was more interested in letting members of the
group know about the accident than trying to get an "A" in
spelling.

Also, you jumped on me a bit quick as I later posted corrections.
I was simply repeating the 'facts' that were being reported at the
time. When those 'facts' were changed, I posted those changes.

Don't kill the messenger.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Verna" wrote in message
news:Z19Ie.104424$%K2.36277@pd7tw1no...
WELL ONE WROTE "GET A LIFE" AND THE OTHER WROTE "GET A GRIP" SO DOES THAT
MAKE THEM BOTH BOTTOM FEEDERS????

Not necessarily, but posting in ALL CAPS merits some consideration for that
award.

Jay B

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Man, you need glasses or something. The spelling is "Lufthansa". And
the plane is an Air France Airbus. Please pay at least minimal
attention to the facts. Thank you.

How about you try paying minimal attention to the thread. Way to
criticize someone 11 hours after they already corrected themselves. You
think the previous 70 posters didn't catch it?

Post #1 (Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:36:58 -0000)
Skywise posts that CNN reports Lufthansa 737 crashed.

Post #2 (Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:45:28 -0000)
Skywise corrects that plane is Air France.

Post #3 (Tue, 02 Aug 2005 21:00:35 -0000)
Skywise corrects that plane is A340.

Post #77 (Wed, 03 Aug 2005 07:40:53 -0000)
Thomas berates Skywise for getting the facts wrong.

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Matt,


It was a tonque-in-cheek comment.



In that case, sorry. No way for me to get it. Maybe I should have taken
that pill before going online ;-)


Althought it would be very ironic if it did turn out to be related to
that, but I have to believe that they did some pretty exhausting testing
of the FBW during certification.


Matt

Happy Dog wrote:

Does it have to do with the attendant paperwork? Declaring an emergency
means a whole bunch of paperwork. The few times I've had a potentially
serious problem, ATC treated it as a potentially serious situation. In one
case it required rerouting landing airliner traffic. And, declaring an
emergency, for the pilot, means you can do pretty much anything you need to,
such as breaking regulations, to save the day. Isn't that what we're
taught?

What paperwork? This is one of those urban legends that just won't die.

Matt

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Matt Barrow wrote:

As it turned out, the landing was uneventful except for all the fire trucks

that followed me down the runway and taxiways.

You musta felt like the Pied Piper!



It was a strange sensation. My biggest fear was the controls would suddenly
become free when somebody tested them. I didn't want anybody to think I had
just pulled a stunt for the thrill of it.

But it was definitely still buggered up when they were tested. It was a little
later that they suddenly popped free.




What did they find was the problem? Somebody leave a tool behind or
something?

Matt

Dave wrote:

Air France will need a new 340 however...

Hi!

I'm not sure of this... Air France was rather in the move of less 340s
and more 777s and 330s (which is, I think a good choice!)

Hope we get the good factual information on the crashfrom the TSB of
Canada soon!

French TV was hardly informative tonight, with the usual 15 minutes of
"impressions" from passengers, people on ground etc...

Cheers

Stanislas


--
remplacez "lesptt" par "laposte" pour me joindre
substitute "laposte" to "lesptt" to reach me

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
Happy Dog wrote:

Does it have to do with the attendant paperwork?

What paperwork? This is one of those urban legends that just won't die.

http://www.avweb.com/news/system/183214-1.html

Is this article substantially incorrect?

moo

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
Paperwork for who? I had a situation where I had rolled a T-34B and while
I was inverted, apparently got something stuck in the controls. The stick
was jammed partway to one side. It took a lot of effort on the stick
along with mucho rudder to keep the aircraft straight and level. I of
course immediately declared an emergency.

As it turned out, the landing was uneventful except for all the fire
trucks that followed me down the runway and taxiways. Thank God the stick
was still stuck when one of the emergency bigwigs tried it, because
shortly after that the obstruction amazingly disappeared after some
manipulation.

I don't recall having to do any paperwork at all, ouside of a note to
maintenance suggesting they really go over the control system before
anybody else flew it.

http://www.avweb.com/news/system/183214-1.html

moo

Matt Barrow wrote:
I thought P-P-P was equivalent to "MAYDAY", which (I thought??) is an
abbreviation for declaring an emergency.

I would put it this way: Both are emergencies, but P-P-P means it's
not a critical situation yet. You're crossing the Atlantic and start
losing a little fuel, that might be a P-P-P alert. The fuel leak grows
to the point that you know you can't make it, that's definitely a
Mayday.

P-P-P is probably rarely used by GA pilots. But airline pilots do use
it to alert ATC as to just how serious _they_ think the situation is.
Perhaps this is because a full airliner emergency might have a larger
affect on airport or airspace operations. (GA planes can safely land
in a small grass field if they lose power... jetliners can't.)

For example, remember Swiss Air 111 that caught fire and then crashed
off Newfoundland before they could land? (Basically because they
followed the book and circled dumping fuel... so as not to be over
landing weight... but the time wasted doing that killed them all.)

Anyway, their calls went something like the following, going from what
they thought was "just" an urgent situation, then to life or death:

10:14PM - "Swissair 111 heavy is declaring Pan Pan Pan. We have smoke
in the cockpit. Request deviate immediate right turn to a convenient
place. I guess Boston..."

10:24PM - "We are declaring an Emergency. We have to land immediately."

10:30PM - crashes into the sea

Best,
Kev