Helios 737 crashed with student pilot at controls - from Google News

Ron Garret wrote:

Yes, but it seems unlikely that he could (or would) have flown a holding
pattern.

The article said the holding pattern was probably flown by the autopilot.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Scott Skylane wrote:

It does strike me as strange that if the aircraft ran out of fuel, there
was a postcrash fire big enough to need helicopter water drops to stop
it. I can envision small blazes caused by a few gallons of unuseable
fuel, but I gotta wonder...

Well, the plane went down only a few hours after takeoff. Perhaps there was
plenty of fuel in other tanks if the guy flying it had known how to switch tanks?

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

They know who was in the cockpit based on the remains and the
observations by the F-16s.

They know who was in the cockpit based on the remains and the
observations by the F-16s.

Yes, but is is presumption to say what they were doing, and when. It
might well be a reasonable presumption, but I don't see how it can be
established, expecially at this juncture, as fact.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article . net,
Dave S wrote:

Ron Garret wrote:



Yes, but it seems unlikely that he could (or would) have flown a holding
pattern.

rg

The FMS entered the hold after overflying the destination at altitude.
Sounds like it flew the lateral part of an approach, missed approach and
hold.

Dave

Ah.

rg

The information gap on this crash is wider than the Grand Canyon, and bodes
ill for a full disclosure at any time. First the F16 pilots say they saw the
pilot absent and the FO slumped over the controls - then they say they saw
someone else attempting to fly the plane - now there are reports one of the
black boxes has been "lost" by authorities, after being recovered.

I am not one given to conspiracy theories - I ridicule those who say 9/11
was staged and I feel there is no strong evidence to contradict the official
story on TWA800 (please let's not start a new thread on this) - but in this
case it is starting to appear that the authorities are not coming forward
with the information. I believe it's possible that the plane suffered a
decompression accident, then, with no one left to fly the plane, the
authorities made the "unthinkable" choice while the plane was in an
uninhabited zone, rather than face the inevitable in less controlled
circumstances.

I'm not saying this is what I think happened - only that it is a possible
theory, about as close as any of the others we have to fitting with the
sparse evidence available. I am not optimistic that full and reliable
details will ever be made available - the "lost" flight recorder being the
last link in the chain of credibility.

To those who claim the plane ran out of fuel - I ask, what evidence supports
this?

G Faris

Greg Farris wrote:

- now there
are reports one of the black boxes has been "lost" by authorities,
after being recovered.

You're about a week behind in the news. The cockpit voice recorder box
was found fairly early in the investigation, but the guts were missing,
having been torn out by the forces in the accident. They have since
found the voice recorder itself at the crash site, but are worried that
it might be too damaged to read. It has been forwarded to France to see
what information they can extract.

- but in this case it is starting to appear that the authorities
are not coming forward with the information.

The Greek authorities tend to do investigations without making early
public statements like they do in some other countries. However, they
have released a general sequence of events that was extracted from the
flight data recorder, and the head of the investigating agency has given
a number of interviews describing what they have found in the
investigation so far. You just aren't reading the right newspapers.

I believe it's possible
that the plane suffered a decompression accident, then, with no one
left to fly the plane, the authorities made the "unthinkable" choice
while the plane was in an uninhabited zone, rather than face the
inevitable in less controlled circumstances.

No, it looks like the pressurization system wasn't working from the time
the aircraft took off. No sudden decompression. The crew was busy trying
to diagnose a number of problems, and likely set up the Flight
Management System/Autopilot to control the flight. The systems then
handled everything involved with flying the airplane. What happened to
the crew and passengers next is open to speculation. Perhaps the crew
was simply overwhelmed by all the problems, and didn't recognize the
risk from the cabin altitude problem.

I'm not saying this is what I think happened - only that it is a
possible theory, about as close as any of the others we have to
fitting with the sparse evidence available. I am not optimistic that
full and reliable details will ever be made available - the "lost"
flight recorder being the last link in the chain of credibility.

To those who claim the plane ran out of fuel - I ask, what evidence
supports this?

The flight data recorder. It says the engines flamed out. There might
have been fuel available in some of the tanks, but if the engines ran
the tanks dry that they were using, and nobody set up the feed for the
other tanks with fuel, then it has the same effect as running out
completely. That would explain why the engines stopped for lack of fuel
and there was still a fire after the crash.

The Greek investigators say the plane ran out of fuel.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/aug/22plane.htm

"Greg Farris" wrote in message
...
The information gap on this crash is wider than the Grand Canyon, and
bodes
ill for a full disclosure at any time. First the F16 pilots say they
saw the
pilot absent and the FO slumped over the controls - then they say they
saw
someone else attempting to fly the plane - now there are reports one
of the
black boxes has been "lost" by authorities, after being recovered.

I am not one given to conspiracy theories - I ridicule those who say
9/11
was staged and I feel there is no strong evidence to contradict the
official
story on TWA800 (please let's not start a new thread on this) - but in
this
case it is starting to appear that the authorities are not coming
forward
with the information. I believe it's possible that the plane suffered
a
decompression accident, then, with no one left to fly the plane, the
authorities made the "unthinkable" choice while the plane was in an
uninhabited zone, rather than face the inevitable in less controlled
circumstances.

I'm not saying this is what I think happened - only that it is a
possible
theory, about as close as any of the others we have to fitting with
the
sparse evidence available. I am not optimistic that full and reliable
details will ever be made available - the "lost" flight recorder being
the
last link in the chain of credibility.

To those who claim the plane ran out of fuel - I ask, what evidence
supports
this?

G Faris

George Patterson wrote:

Scott Skylane wrote:


It does strike me as strange that if the aircraft ran out of fuel,
there was a postcrash fire big enough to need helicopter water drops
to stop it. I can envision small blazes caused by a few gallons of
unuseable fuel, but I gotta wonder...


Well, the plane went down only a few hours after takeoff. Perhaps there
was plenty of fuel in other tanks if the guy flying it had known how to
switch tanks?

He was reading this other thread about running a tank dry and really
balled it up.

"sfb" wrote:

The Greek investigators say the plane ran out of fuel.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/aug/22plane.htm

Just a minor point. The authorities have said that the engines stopped
because of fuel starvation. They didn't say the plane ran out of fuel.