CNX-80 vs Garmin 430/530

blink
You don't think you'd use VNAV if you had it?
That's like ignoring your ILS glideslope, and always making LOC =
approaches.
Please tell me I misunderstood you.
---JRC---

"Jeff" wrote in message =
...
I heard the update was like $1000, but it may be 1500$, its one of =
those.
Personally I dont think I will use the vnav, thats why I got the 430, =
with
exception of vnav and entering in flight plans via the airways they =
are
esentially the same box.
=20
I was out doing practice approaches today with my 430, its coupled to =
my HSI
and that is coupled to my auto pilot. even the DME arc was simple. =
flew a
perfect arc, well the auto pilot flew a perfect arc
=20

no you did not misunderstad me,
I am just as happy with using my altimiter, vnav lets you decend about an extra 20 ft or so
( the approach I did today was a 20 ft difference) its not something that is necessary for
me, and its not going to open 100 more airports for me, vnav simply gives you a lower MDA
and its nothing like ignoring a glideslope.
A ILS is a precision approach and a gps approach is not.
Also Vnav is not in wide use as of yet, it will be sometime before its widely available.
You have gone this long without using vnav, why is it a must for you now?
not flamming or anything negative, just a curious question.

Jeff

"John R. Copeland" wrote:

blink
You don't think you'd use VNAV if you had it?
That's like ignoring your ILS glideslope, and always making LOC approaches.
Please tell me I misunderstood you.
---JRC---

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
I heard the update was like $1000, but it may be 1500$, its one of those.
Personally I dont think I will use the vnav, thats why I got the 430, with
exception of vnav and entering in flight plans via the airways they are
esentially the same box.

I was out doing practice approaches today with my 430, its coupled to my HSI
and that is coupled to my auto pilot. even the DME arc was simple. flew a
perfect arc, well the auto pilot flew a perfect arc

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 19:38:41 -0800, Jeff wrote:


I am just as happy with using my altimiter, vnav lets you decend about an extra 20 ft or so
( the approach I did today was a 20 ft difference) its not something that is necessary for
me, and its not going to open 100 more airports for me, vnav simply gives you a lower MDA
and its nothing like ignoring a glideslope.
A ILS is a precision approach and a gps approach is not.
Also Vnav is not in wide use as of yet, it will be sometime before its widely available.
You have gone this long without using vnav, why is it a must for you now?
not flamming or anything negative, just a curious question.

At GAI the GPS 14 LNAV has an MDA of 700 AGL, the LNAV/VNAV has a DA
of 400 AGL, and THE LPV (when equipment becomes available) will have a
DA of 300 AGL. That is as good as some ILS approaches. Since the
approach plates do use the term DA for the approaches, that sure makes
me think they are in fact precision approaches.

I went downstairs and got my approach plates, your right its shown as DA, also I was thinking
that a requirement for a precision approach is verticle navagation, so maybe vnav will (or is) a
precision approach, I havnt read enough about it.
Where I live, if we have low clouds, they are full of ice, the sky is clear most of the year,
average 6 inches of rain a year. When I fly to california, where it does get foggy, low clouds
and such, every other airport seems to have an ILS, so vnav is not a big issue for me.

Where I flew today, cedar city, Ut the DA for the ILS is 5800 and a 1/2 mile, the GPS approach
using vnav is 6000 and 1 mile, the airport elevation is 5622 so the ILS gets you down to 200 agl
and the vnav gets you down to 400 AGL. My preference to flying any approach in IMC, where I may
have to decend to minimuns is to use an ILS. My reasoning is because around here, alot of the
VOR and GPS approaches turn you around mountains, not something I really want to do when I cant
see the mountains. So my reasoning for not having a need for vnav is based on several things,
mainly I dont think I would use it because we dont have the weather and the main places I fly
that does have weather I have a choice of airports with ILS's. But I am curious if this vnav is
actualy going to be a precision approach.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


ArtP wrote:



At GAI the GPS 14 LNAV has an MDA of 700 AGL, the LNAV/VNAV has a DA
of 400 AGL, and THE LPV (when equipment becomes available) will have a
DA of 300 AGL. That is as good as some ILS approaches. Since the
approach plates do use the term DA for the approaches, that sure makes
me think they are in fact precision approaches.

Jeff writes:

thats one radio for that amount, not two.

The SL-30 is better than two radios.

Adding the CNX-80 would give you two
com's.

More like three (or four?).

I know the SL30 does alot, but its still allot for one radio.

Have you used one? It is a lot for a single radio. It's not a lot
for one that very effectively replaces two. Yes, it does cost more
to get the more capable unit than to get one with far less
functionality. That's not an aviation first.

--kyler

(Ben Jackson) writes:

thats one radio for that amount, not two.

One radio that will let you listen to your standby frequency while
listening/transmitting on your primary frequency,

....*and* give the primary frequency priority. That is *so* much
better in many situations than manually twiddling the knobs on two
radios. I often listen to an upcoming CTAF frequency while I'm
still with Center. It's great to know that I won't miss a call
from Center even if someone's still transmitting on CTAF. And I'm
just one more button press from going over to CTAF as my primary
frequency.

Try that with two separate radios.

No, I'm not an SL-30 salesman. I just like to applaud good design
and I hate seeing people rail on equipment they don't understand.

--kyler

I can do exactly the same thing and do with my radios.
I am guessing you dont just have the one radio in your plane do you? you
probably have another nav/com or gps/com correct?


Kyler Laird wrote:

(Ben Jackson) writes:

thats one radio for that amount, not two.

One radio that will let you listen to your standby frequency while
listening/transmitting on your primary frequency,

...*and* give the primary frequency priority. That is *so* much
better in many situations than manually twiddling the knobs on two
radios. I often listen to an upcoming CTAF frequency while I'm
still with Center. It's great to know that I won't miss a call
from Center even if someone's still transmitting on CTAF. And I'm
just one more button press from going over to CTAF as my primary
frequency.

Try that with two separate radios.

No, I'm not an SL-30 salesman. I just like to applaud good design
and I hate seeing people rail on equipment they don't understand.

--kyler

no I dont have one in my airplane, I could probably rent an airplane
with one but I like my airplane.
I have a gps/com and a nav/com, I dont have a need for another radio. an
sl30 can be 5 radio's in one, it may have alot of function, and may be a
good idea if someone was going to install only one radio. But you can
only listen to so many people at one time. For me, that is 2.
I have not said it was a bad radio, all of apollo stuff is good, I only
said it was expensive and that if you had 2 radio's the extra functions
are a big deal compared to the cost.
I just paid $20,000 for my new avionics, my plane was in the shop for a
week. I could have easily spent $40,000, but is it stuff I really need.

How much did your new avionics stack run you for?




Kyler Laird wrote:

Jeff writes:

thats one radio for that amount, not two.

The SL-30 is better than two radios.

Adding the CNX-80 would give you two
com's.

More like three (or four?).

I know the SL30 does alot, but its still allot for one radio.

Have you used one? It is a lot for a single radio. It's not a lot
for one that very effectively replaces two. Yes, it does cost more
to get the more capable unit than to get one with far less
functionality. That's not an aviation first.

--kyler

Jeff wrote in
:

paul, you can download and install the traner for most of garmins
GPS's. go to garmin.com and then to avionics. its free andit will give
you a feel for what they do. the cnx80 is about the only one that does
not have a trainer for it online.

Heck, UPSAT (okay, now a division of Garmin) doesn't even make available to
prospective customers a simulator for the GX50/60. The only one they
provide doesn't do approaches, which is pretty much the part you really
want the simulator to see how easy/hard it is to use. [Entering a radio
frequency just isn't that big a deal.]

And guess what, even if you shell out $6K or so for the GX60... you still
don't get the real simulator. [But you CAN buy it!] I'm sorry... that's
just not good customer service.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

I was hoping that garmin, now since they own upsat, will make simulators
available for the CNX80 like they do for the 430/530 , having that may have
swayed me to get the cnx80, but since I couldnt find any real info on it..went
with the 430. I think before long they will have better integration for garmin
and upsat stuff, I am interested in seeing what theyhave planned, hopefully its
not taking advanntage of the market and gouging us.


"James M. Knox" wrote:

Jeff wrote in
:

paul, you can download and install the traner for most of garmins
GPS's. go to garmin.com and then to avionics. its free andit will give
you a feel for what they do. the cnx80 is about the only one that does
not have a trainer for it online.

Heck, UPSAT (okay, now a division of Garmin) doesn't even make available to
prospective customers a simulator for the GX50/60. The only one they
provide doesn't do approaches, which is pretty much the part you really
want the simulator to see how easy/hard it is to use. [Entering a radio
frequency just isn't that big a deal.]

And guess what, even if you shell out $6K or so for the GX60... you still
don't get the real simulator. [But you CAN buy it!] I'm sorry... that's
just not good customer service.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------