Katrina fall-out

Pixel Dent wrote in message ...
In article ,
Martin Hotze wrote:

"Morgans" wrote:

Hell, bring in the C-17's, and C-5A's and C-130's. Marshall law should
have
been declared, all should have been driven out, and transportation
provided
for those who needed it. Set up refugee camps at closed military
bases, and
all could have lived much more comfortably than they are now.

This is one point I can't understand .... you (the USA) is able to invade
a
country in a matter of 1 or 2 days (I don't want to argue about *that*
right now), bring thousands of soldiers from one side of the planet to
the
other one ... but: aren't you able to bring several thousand of soldiers,
a
carrier, etc. down to New Orleans? Let your troops do something useful.

#m

Actually it took about 6 months to get the soldiers in place for Iraq.
One commentator on NPR this morning cited the old maxim, "Amateurs
discuss strategy, professionals discuss logistics."

It also took about a year of up to 10,000 Special Ops covert operators
prepping the battlefield, using bribery and other techniques to soften the
Republican Guard. Once the invasion began, it took several days to get to
Baghdad, a distance that one could ordinarily drive in a few hours. I agree
that there should have been much better planning in place for NO, but the
professionals have some understanding of the problems that would shock
amateurs:

http://www.nola.com/printer/printer.ssf?/washingaway/
"The American Red Cross will not put emergency shelters in the area because
it does not want to put volunteers or evacuees in danger."

- Rick

Pixel Dent wrote:

A good portion of the LA-NG is in Iraq...

Yes, about 25 to 30% if I remember the CNN report. That leaves quite a
few.

So how long does it take to call them up, marshall them together and
transport them in? Keep in mind that our long distance service is out
for the most part. Anywhere you want to call, town to town, etc. is
typically long distance. How many days has it been since Katrina? Maybe
you're confusing Louisiana with something the size of Rhode Island, D.C.
or New Jersey...

Tom Fleischman wrote in message
2005090216580216807%bodhioneeightyeightjunkatmacd otcom@junkjunk...
You know what, Jay? You disgust me me. I've had it with your racist,
christo-fascist

You forgot Neocon. All those Stupid Red State Iowa Rubes are Neocons.

ravings.

You are a sick, twisted, miserable excuse for a human being and you
should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm done with you, and the rest of your ilk in these newsgroups. There
are a few reasonable people here, but for the most part you all disgust
me. Your sometimes-useful aviation related contributions are not worth
putting up with your ignorant and offensive posts anymore.

I'm gone...

Good riddance.
[snip]

- Rick, stupid ex-pat Iowa Neocon.

In article ,
Darrel Toepfer wrote:

Pixel Dent wrote:

A good portion of the LA-NG is in Iraq...

Yes, about 25 to 30% if I remember the CNN report. That leaves quite a
few.

So how long does it take to call them up, marshall them together and
transport them in?

I'm impressed they've done it as quickly as they have. I would have
expected longer given the transportation issues.

Keep in mind that our long distance service is out
for the most part. Anywhere you want to call, town to town, etc. is
typically long distance.

I'll do that

How many days has it been since Katrina?

4

Maybe
you're confusing Louisiana with something the size of Rhode Island, D.C.
or New Jersey...

No, I live close enough that there was a good chance Katrina was heading
my way.

I'm curious, why do you think I'm confused about the size of Louisiana?
All I did was report the percentage of NG troops from LA not stationed
in Iraq (at least according to CNN).

You have me bewildered.

Next: The end of the west coast, since it is in an earthquake area.
Imagine Silicon Valley vanishing in a major quake...

Silicon Valley is another perfect example of human arrogance.
Hey -- wait -- I've got it! Let's build a 100 billion dollar
infrastructure on top of a major fault line!
And when (not if) it is destroyed, there will be people begging the Federal
Government to come rebuild it.

He who lives in glass houses...
http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/prepare/fac...leston1895.gif
Shows the New Madrid fault seismic extends into Iowa.
To quote another page...
A major earthquake in this area (7.5 or greater) happens every 200-300
years (the last one in 1812). There is a 25% chance of such a disaster
by the year 2040. A New Madrid Fault rupture this size would be felt
throughout half the United States and damage expected in 20 states or
more. Missouri alone could anticipate losses of at least $6 billion (in
1990 dollars) from such an event.

The New Madrid fault is a horizontal fault so the the total area lying
atop the plate above the epicenter is affected.

in article , Matt Whiting at
wrote on 9/2/05 3:29 AM:

Philip S. wrote:
in article , john smith at
wrote on 9/1/05 8:21 PM:


Philip S. wrote:

You might better direct your anger towards a federal government that had
all
the same warnings, all the same information (and probably more), and yet
has
STILL not taken control of the situation, FOUR DAYS after disaster struck.
Shoot, Jay, when even the collective might of the United States military
and
its assorted agencies are running around with their thumbs up their asses
several days after the fact, is it really appropriate to express outrage at
the victims who are suffering most?

Stop blaming the federal government!
That's why this mess is so bad in the first place.
State and local governments have become so dependent upon the federal
programs, they cannot think, let alone act on their on.
The City of New Orleans did nothing until the last minute.
The State of Louisana did nothing until after the fact.
The federal government is trying to play catch up.
The City of New Orleans knew what the consequences were.
The State of Lousiana certainly had some idea of the consequences based
on their oversight authority.
Both these government entities dragged their heels waiting for Uncle Sam
to come to their rescue before the fact. The only thing Uncle Sam knew
was that it was going to be bad.


Terrorist attack or natural disaster, it really makes no difference--the
current administration ran for re-election less than a year ago on the
premise that they could keep us all safe, that they were better than their
opponents on issues of "homeland security", that when it came to protecting
the homeland, only they could do the job.

How do you propose that the Feds stop a hurricane? Put up a tall fence?
Protecting the homeland from a hurricane. That is hilarious...

Matt

Um, are you deliberately misrepresenting what I said, or do you just not
know how to read? I clearly was referring to the response to the disaster,
not the disaster itself. But feel free to erect as many strawmen as
possible.

in article , Bob
Noel at lid wrote on 9/2/05 4:29 AM:

In article ,
"Philip S." wrote:

Terrorist attack or natural disaster, it really makes no difference--the
current administration ran for re-election less than a year ago on the
premise that they could keep us all safe, that they were better than their
opponents on issues of "homeland security", that when it came to protecting
the homeland, only they could do the job.

yeah, fixing a distaster of this magnitude is really a simple thing. Just
like
with a TV one-hour drama.

What are you talking about? Who said it was a "simple thing"?

in article TZWRe.82217$084.51854@attbi_s22, Jay Honeck at
wrote on 9/2/05 4:48 AM:

If tourists couldn't get out, even with plenty of warning, what options do
you think poor people had?

No, you need to ask that slightly differently. "If tourists couldn't get
out, what options do you think native New Orleaneans (or whatever they are
called) had?"

I'd wager that someone who lived there would have a heckuva lot more "street
knowledge" on how to get out, than a lost tourist would.

As the story develops over time, it's all coming down to this: Those who
knew, and could, got out. Those who didn't -- or didn't care -- stayed.

I don't know about the story you're hearing, but what I'm hearing is that a
heck of a lot of people simply had no way of leaving. Believe it or not, it
really IS that simple. Hell, I heard a woman at the N.O. Ritz Carlton
interviewed. She said the hotel was packed with (presumably well-off)
tourists just like herself, who had tried like hell to get out of town last
Saturday. These are rich people we're talking about, Jay--people who can
charter a plane if they have to. And THEY couldn't get out.

But all of this begs a much larger question: if the people of New Orleans
had "plenty of warning", and should be held accountable for not getting out
in time, why in the hell are their so many apologists for the feds not being
prepared?

"Darrel Toepfer" wrote in message
...
Pixel Dent wrote:

A good portion of the LA-NG is in Iraq...

Yes, about 25 to 30% if I remember the CNN report. That leaves quite a
few.

So how long does it take to call them up, marshall them together and
transport them in? Keep in mind that our long distance service is out
for the most part. Anywhere you want to call, town to town, etc. is
typically long distance. How many days has it been since Katrina? Maybe
you're confusing Louisiana with something the size of Rhode Island, D.C.
or New Jersey...

It has been a week since we up here in IL got word NO was likely to get hit
bad and still the NG is not there in any significant numbers. Doesn't the
military have a better communication system than relying on commercial
telephone. It's pretty sad.

in article K7XRe.323186$xm3.141266@attbi_s21, Jay Honeck at
wrote on 9/2/05 4:58 AM:

How many people have to tell these dumb asses to GET THE HELL OUT OF
DODGE
when there is a Level 5 hurricane bearing down on them, before they
actually
listen?

You might better direct your anger towards a federal government that had
all
the same warnings, all the same information (and probably more), and yet
has
STILL not taken control of the situation, FOUR DAYS after disaster struck.

Shoot, Jay, when even the collective might of the United States military
and
its assorted agencies are running around with their thumbs up their asses
several days after the fact, is it really appropriate to express outrage
at
the victims who are suffering most?

The Feds must be invited by the governor of any state before they can
react -- period. This is NOT a Federal Government thing until it becomes
apparent that the State cannot handle things.

That was apparent to me about 4 days ago, but I only watch TV and read the
internet. What do I know?

I am not angry about the situation -- I am incredulous. It's an awful,
horrible mess, and the entire country is going to pay a bitter price for the
stupidity and arrogance of a relative few, starting with:

1. People who thought it was okay to live 20 feet below sea level, next to
an ocean.
2. Government officials who allowed stupid people to build 20 feet below sea
level, next to an ocean.

Jesus, Jay, do you honestly think there is a place on this planet that is
safe from natural disaster? Hey, I've heard that Iowa is called "The Cyclone
State". Helluva place to set up house, Jay.

3. Environmental activists who, through their actions, have left our country
economically ravaged by the loss of a few lousy oil refineries.
4. Able bodied "victims" who, on national TV, shout their anger and contempt
because the "Gubmint" hasn't done enough.

Go without food, water and breathable air for a week sometime, Jay, and let
us know how "able-bodied" you're feeling.

5. Armed gangs of "victims" who are shooting at rescue helicopters.

I'll agree with you on this one point. Nobody has any use for the lunatics
that did this. But how many of them do you think there were?