Touch and Goes versus Full Stop Taxi Backs

unicate wrote:

My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no*
T & G for student solo.


"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this sure sounds like
a great way to pad the Hobbs time on the rental planes...


Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long. I'm not sure if
they insist on that throughout the training, but when they first start
soloing, they are not allowed to do T&Gs there.

That is interesting as a properly executed T&G will use less runway.

Matt

nrp wrote:

On a 172 you also beat the hell out of the flap structure when at full
power and 40 degrees down. If you are slow getting them up there is a
tendency to wheelbarrow too.

Flap extension speed is what? 100 knots? You aren't "beating the hell" out of
the flaps at any speed you're likely to see on the ground. As for
wheelbarrowing, you just landed. Trim is set to keep the nose up. If you don't
do anything at all except get the power on, the plane is simply going to take
off and climb away at sea level.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long. I'm not sure if
they insist on that throughout the training, but when they first start
soloing, they are not allowed to do T&Gs there.

Matt Whiting wrote:
That is interesting as a properly executed T&G will use less runway.

T&Gs aren't prohibited at the airport, just for new solo students, with
runway length given as the reason. I guess it's the "properly executed"
part that they worry about.

George Patterson wrote:

nrp wrote:


On a 172 you also beat the hell out of the flap structure when at full
power and 40 degrees down. If you are slow getting them up there is a
tendency to wheelbarrow too.


Flap extension speed is what? 100 knots? You aren't "beating the hell"
out of the flaps at any speed you're likely to see on the ground. As for
wheelbarrowing, you just landed. Trim is set to keep the nose up. If you
don't do anything at all except get the power on, the plane is simply
going to take off and climb away at sea level.

Even if I land at an airport with an elevation of 2,000'? :-)

Matt

unicate wrote:

Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long. I'm not sure if
they insist on that throughout the training, but when they first start
soloing, they are not allowed to do T&Gs there.


Matt Whiting wrote:

That is interesting as a properly executed T&G will use less runway.


T&Gs aren't prohibited at the airport, just for new solo students, with
runway length given as the reason. I guess it's the "properly executed"
part that they worry about.

That part certainly makes sense!

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

Even if I land at an airport with an elevation of 2,000'? :-)

The last two words in my post were "at sea level."

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Matt Whiting wrote:

Only if you are a low-wing pilot. :-)

Matt

Dang it - & I got that bad habit with only 20 minutes in a
Cherokee........!



On further reflection I do taxibacks instead of T&Gs because I own the
airplane (Tach or hourmeter time means nothing) & I self insure the
hull. I also have had to reskin the LH flap on an older 172 due to
cracking at the trailing edge. I'm not critical of others that do
T&Gs, but on shorter runways I like to be fully psyched up for how to
handle a T/O.

I once did a very strong 90 deg Xwind takeoff in which I just happened
to take the Xwind on the right side, got into the rubbity scrub mode
treating it as a short-field since it was at a higher altitude, but
managed to horse it in the air.

It was my good fortune to not have taken that Xwind on the left or I
probably would have rolled it into a ball. My Xwind technique is
different now and hopefully more correct, but I don't take T/Os for
granted anymore. A T/O is a crosswind first - and what performance is
left over can be used for short or soft field. It was a singular hole
in my pre-private instruction that I missed.

I never have seen the right/left crosswind difference noted by others.
Why not?

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:59:16 -0700, unicate wrote:

it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long.

Now THAT is short! I find it a bit difficult to imagine a flight
school operating from such a runway, or that the airport would not ban
T&G's on its own, quite apart from the danger to students.

My home airport is 2600 feet, and I have met 172 drivers who refuse to
land there because they aren't STOL equipped!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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the blog: www.danford.net
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On 16 Sep 2005 14:59:04 -0700, "nrp" wrote:

I never have seen the right/left crosswind difference noted by others.
Why not?

It is certainly true that the only time I ever went off the runway on
takeoff was a left crosswind, and I certainly treat left crosswinds
with more respect.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Dan wrote

"My home airport is 2600 feet, and I have met 172 drivers who refuse to

land there because they aren't STOL equipped!"

To which I say, those are airplane drivers I wouldn't want to fly with.