Landing with one spoiler

Originally Posted by Chris Rollings

4. Anybody know anyone who has had to land with both
brakes shut - in
a glider with more performance than a tin brick? I'd
be interested to
hear their stories.

Ray

November 1975, Aboyne, Kestrel 19. Tried to open the
brakes to descend from ~ 20,000 feet as cloud was closing
in below. Brakes wouldn't open (cold had caused over
centre lock to become unbreakably tight). Lowered flap
and undercarraige and spiraled down. Entered cloud
at 5,000 feet, got spat out the bottom at 2,000 about
30 seconds later (had been in the down of the wave),
about ten miles from Aboyne. Brakes still wouldn't
open. Did a side-slip approach into a field about
200 yards square, approached on a corner to corner
line (about 300 yards available), surface wind was
about 20 - 25 knots. Wheeled it on, still no brakes
and the wheel brake is on the end of the airbrake travel,
tried the tailchute in the flare, that didn't work
either. Put the stick forward and ground looped just
before the far corner. Opened my eyes again, expecting
to see the back end of the glider lying on the ground
in front of me. Turned out there was no damage. You
can get away with it, but I wouldn't want to try it
with no wind. Exciting way to get a Diamond Height.

I don't think I would want to own an ASW 12.

This thread is surprising me. Do we get tested how to stop a vehicle without brakes? Are we asked to get a vehicle to the top of a hill with no engine running?
Surely if there is a control surface malfunction it should be treated as an EMERGENCY and dealt with accordingly -not practiced! Many more pilots have left the earth with a canopy unlatched than had to land with faulty spoilers, did the FAA ask CFIs to do a lap with no canopy?
C'mon, guys, the stories are great, but be serious, as a newbie (19 years flying) surely, to keep pilots keen, spin and rope break emergencies are enough sweat on the brow.

Safe as always.

Wayne

Now that's more like it. Keep em' coming....

Ray

At 09:06 26 September 2005, Chris Rollings wrote:


4. Anybody know anyone who has had to land with both
brakes shut - in
a glider with more performance than a tin brick? I'd
be interested to
hear their stories.

Ray

November 1975, Aboyne, Kestrel 19. Tried to open the
brakes to descend from ~ 20,000 feet as cloud was closing
in below. Brakes wouldn't open (cold had caused over
centre lock to become unbreakably tight). Lowered flap
and undercarraige and spiraled down. Entered cloud
at 5,000 feet, got spat out the bottom at 2,000 about
30 seconds later (had been in the down of the wave),
about ten miles from Aboyne. Brakes still wouldn't
open. Did a side-slip approach into a field about
200 yards square, approached on a corner to corner
line (about 300 yards available), surface wind was
about 20 - 25 knots. Wheeled it on, still no brakes
and the wheel brake is on the end of the airbrake travel,
tried the tailchute in the flare, that didn't work
either. Put the stick forward and ground looped just
before the far corner. Opened my eyes again, expecting
to see the back end of the glider lying on the ground
in front of me. Turned out there was no damage. You
can get away with it, but I wouldn't want to try it
with no wind. Exciting way to get a Diamond Height.

I don't think I would want to own an ASW 12.

"Ray Hart" wrote...

snips
4. Anybody know anyone who has had to land with both
brakes shut - in
a glider with more performance than a tin brick? I'd
be interested to
hear their stories.

Ray

A friend of mine did it in his DG-200 (original 2-piece canopy version) on a
4,100' strip at 5288' msl...got stopped perhaps 3800' down the strip after
going by the 500' mark at ~head height. I *think* I can recall it being
written/synopsized in "Soaring" mag's "Safety Corner" some years back.

I 'disremember' why he had to do it, but as I recall it was a
spoiler-related hardware failure of some sort.

I thought he did darned good!

Regards,
Bob W.

4. Anybody know anyone who has had to land with both
brakes shut - in
a glider with more performance than a tin brick? I'd
be interested to
hear their stories.

Ray

I don’t post messages on RAS normally but this is an
exception.
Yes, I have landed a Discus with no spoilers, and yes
it was my stupidity.
I taped the spoilers shut to keep the rain out and
didn’t do a proper ground
check the next day. The first clue was on down wind
at about 500 ft. The
part that requires the most practice is when to turn
base and just how low
you must be in order to put it on the ground and get
it stopped. If you have
never done it you should practice it. The alternative
is to never make a
mistake and make sure the glider is always going to
give you what you
want.
I fly at a glider field where the instructors insist
that you not only know
how but also practice “no spoiler landings” to a full
stop, and they can spot
land with no spoilers. In fact we did one yesterday
in a Grob 103.
Caracole has done an excellent job of teaching me soaring.
It’s hard to
teach an old dog new tricks but I learn something new
every time I go out
to fly.
Chuck

Chuck Griswold wrote:
4. Anybody know anyone who has had to land with both
brakes shut - in
a glider with more performance than a tin brick? I'd
be interested to
hear their stories.

Ray


I don’t post messages on RAS normally but this is an
exception.
Yes, I have landed a Discus with no spoilers, and yes
it was my stupidity.
I taped the spoilers shut to keep the rain out and
didn’t do a proper ground
check the next day. The first clue was on down wind
at about 500 ft. The
part that requires the most practice is when to turn
base and just how low
you must be in order to put it on the ground and get
it stopped. If you have
never done it you should practice it. The alternative
is to never make a
mistake and make sure the glider is always going to
give you what you
want.
I fly at a glider field where the instructors insist
that you not only know
how but also practice “no spoiler landings” to a full
stop, and they can spot
land with no spoilers. In fact we did one yesterday
in a Grob 103.
Caracole has done an excellent job of teaching me soaring.
It’s hard to
teach an old dog new tricks but I learn something new
every time I go out
to fly.
Chuck

Put some tape on your stick the next time.
"What's this? Oh yeah."
Just a thought.

Shawn

Easy to throw stones, I know. But Chuck, this is the
most ridiculous thing I've heard. No Daily Inspection
and then no pre-flight checks? We don't need lessons
in airbrakeless landings, just a good grounding in
the basics. Caracole may have taught good soaring
but it looks like they skimped on the most basic points
of airmanship.

Mark

At 18:42 26 September 2005, Chuck Griswold wrote:

I don’t post messages on RAS normally but this is an
exception.
Yes, I have landed a Discus with no spoilers, and yes
it was my stupidity.
I taped the spoilers shut to keep the rain out and
didn’t do a proper ground
check the next day. The first clue was on down wind
at about 500 ft. The
part that requires the most practice is when to turn
base and just how low
you must be in order to put it on the ground and get
it stopped. If you have
never done it you should practice it. The alternative
is to never make a
mistake and make sure the glider is always going to
give you what you
want.
I fly at a glider field where the instructors insist
that you not only know
how but also practice “no spoiler landings” to a full
stop, and they can spot
land with no spoilers. In fact we did one yesterday
in a Grob 103.
Caracole has done an excellent job of teaching me soaring.
It’s hard to
teach an old dog new tricks but I learn something new
every time I go out
to fly.
Chuck

Mark Dickson wrote:
Easy to throw stones, I know. But Chuck, this is the
most ridiculous thing I've heard. No Daily Inspection
and then no pre-flight checks? We don't need lessons
in airbrakeless landings, just a good grounding in
the basics. Caracole may have taught good soaring
but it looks like they skimped on the most basic points
of airmanship.

So, I guess we can assume that you have never, ever, missed a checklist
item, and have never made any other mistakes while engaged in aviation.
My hat is off to you! For the rest of us, should we train on the
assumption that we always follow procedures perfectly and needn't
consider what to do if we don't, or assume we are human, screw up every
once in a while, and may therefore need to resort to a backup procedure?

Marc

Shawn wrote:



I don’t post messages on RAS normally but this is an
exception. Yes, I have landed a Discus with no spoilers, and yes
it was my stupidity. I taped the spoilers shut to keep the rain out and
didn’t do a proper ground check the next day.
Put some tape on your stick the next time.
"What's this? Oh yeah."
Just a thought.

And the tape should have written on it "DO A DI".

A normal DI would discover the spoilers won't open, so obviously a
control check was never done at any time. Removing the tape on the
spoilers is a good idea, but doing a DI is even better (the tape might
not be the only problem).


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

At 22:42 26 September 2005, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Mark Dickson wrote:
Easy to throw stones, I know. But Chuck, this is
the
most ridiculous thing I've heard. No Daily Inspection
and then no pre-flight checks? We don't need lessons
in airbrakeless landings, just a good grounding in
the basics. Caracole may have taught good soaring
but it looks like they skimped on the most basic points
of airmanship.

So, I guess we can assume that you have never, ever,
missed a checklist
item, and have never made any other mistakes while
engaged in aviation.
My hat is off to you! For the rest of us, should
we train on the
assumption that we always follow procedures perfectly
and needn't
consider what to do if we don't, or assume we are human,
screw up every
once in a while, and may therefore need to resort to
a backup procedure?

Marc


This isn't missing an item, this is not doing any checks.
Hopefully no-one takes off without doing any checks
(obviously they do). There is no need to practice
landing without airbrakes, although being proficient
at side-slipping is useful.

At 05:36 27 September 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Shawn wrote:



I don’t post messages on RAS normally but this is
an
exception. Yes, I have landed a Discus with no spoilers,
and yes
it was my stupidity. I taped the spoilers shut to
keep the rain out and
didn’t do a proper ground check the next day.
Put some tape on your stick the next time.
'What's this? Oh yeah.'
Just a thought.

And the tape should have written on it 'DO A DI'.

A normal DI would discover the spoilers won't open,
so obviously a
control check was never done at any time. Removing
the tape on the
spoilers is a good idea, but doing a DI is even better
(the tape might
not be the only problem).


--
Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Ouch! I didn’t realize how much that would smart.
Of course you’re all
absolutely correct. I could of, should of, would of,
but didn’t. The point that
I was trying to make is; sometimes things don’t go
as planned and if you
have practiced for the unexpected the end result will
always turn out better.
Nuff said. Hope I didn’t embarrass anyone.
Chuck