Sudden Flat Tire

I didn't know anyone made steel cord tires for aircraft, at least not
for aircraft that I'm likely to fly. All the tires I've seen are nylon
bias-ply tires. The only steel is the tire bead.

Could the steel cord be foreign object damage? In that case, lucky you
picked it up in the tire and not in the prop.

RK Henry

Not sure. I don't know that much about aircraft tires. That's why I posted
here. The material was very fine bristly stiff wire. I just assumed it was
steel cord, since it felt like the steel cord from automotive tires. What was
weird is that it was about mid point on the side wall. The A&P that replaced
the tire was surprised as well. The clubs A & P is looking into it. To try and
figure out if was tire defect or if somewhere something got picked up. It was
very odd.

Kevin Kubiak PP-ASEL

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:05:03 -0700, "Seth Masia"
wrote:

I can't conceive of an operational situation that would cause a steel cord
to come adrift from inside the molded rubber.

I can. I was an auto mechanic for 9 years. Tires that had steel
reinforced tread could and did expose them if the tires were run at
low pressure for too long. Happened all the time. Don't see why
airplane tires wouldn't become damaged in the same manner if run with
low pressure.

The tire pressure for a Cessna 172S is 35 psi mains and 43 psi front
according to the POH. Last time I flew the rental, which was during
my biennial flight review a few weeks ago, I noticed the front tire
was low. The instructor had a pressure guage with him and admonished
me to keep one with me at all times myself. We found the front tire
was at 8 psi and both mains were around 10.

According to the CFI, land a bit cockeyed with tire pressures that low
and you could easily blow out a tire.

Corky Scott

"Kevin Kubiak" wrote in message
...
I didn't know anyone made steel cord tires for aircraft, at least not
for aircraft that I'm likely to fly. All the tires I've seen are nylon
bias-ply tires. The only steel is the tire bead.

Could the steel cord be foreign object damage? In that case, lucky you
picked it up in the tire and not in the prop.

RK Henry

Not sure. I don't know that much about aircraft tires. That's why I
posted
here. The material was very fine bristly stiff wire. I just assumed it
was
steel cord, since it felt like the steel cord from automotive tires. What
was
weird is that it was about mid point on the side wall. The A&P that
replaced
the tire was surprised as well. The clubs A & P is looking into it. To
try and
figure out if was tire defect or if somewhere something got picked up. It
was
very odd.

Kevin Kubiak PP-ASEL

It didn't say "Farm and Fleet" on the sidewall did it? :-)

RK Henry wrote:

I didn't know anyone made steel cord tires for aircraft, at least not
for aircraft that I'm likely to fly.

That also puzzled me when I read it. I just checked the Desser Tire site, and
they don't list any steel cord tires.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

...still amazed that my car has run flat tires, but planes don't. More
60's technology flying around. Astonishing.

Several reasons:
Certification costs.
You need the tires to give and flex on landing. Cars do not need this
since the do not land.
Large airplanes have dial tires per gear. Redundancy.
Michelle

Skylune wrote:

..still amazed that my car has run flat tires, but planes don't. More
60's technology flying around. Astonishing.

wrote in message
...
I can. I was an auto mechanic for 9 years. Tires that had steel
reinforced tread could and did expose them if the tires were run at
low pressure for too long. Happened all the time. Don't see why
airplane tires wouldn't become damaged in the same manner if run with
low pressure.

One main reason might be the duration of operation required to cause a
problem. Airplane tires do warm up, but not nearly to the extent that an
automobile tire would. They simply aren't used for the distances and speeds
that an auto tire experiences. The heat that is the cause of failure at low
tire pressures is much less likely to become a factor for an airplane tire
than for auto tires.

[...]
According to the CFI, land a bit cockeyed with tire pressures that low
and you could easily blow out a tire.

I can believe that the tire would separate from the rim, allowing the tire
pressure to be completely relieved. Technically, that would be a "blow out"
IMHO, but it's not the same as a failure of the actual tire material.

Pete

"Skylune" wrote in
lkaboutaviation.com:

Thats strange. My car has run flat tires (making blow-outs impossible).

Run-flats can blow out. The difference between them and regular tires
is that they have a stronger sidewall so that if you have you lose
pressure due to a leak or small puncture, the tire will not go so flat
as to ride on the rim. This allows you to drive a short distance at slow
speeds to get to safety and replace/repair your tire.


Aren't the same available for planes?

Someone else would have to answer that.

Brian (who knows what it's like to blow a tire at 85 mph)
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? Supernews Sucks!

Good Year quality product, like on Nascar which keep failing with a
new 'softer' compound, you've seen pictures.

Bush

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:54:18 -0500, Kevin Kubiak
wrote:

Strange thing happened to me earlier this week (monday).
I flew from home base at KUGN to KDBQ with a friend
for a quick stop and then we were planning to fly up the Mississippi
to look for some fall colors.

Had a nice clear day with light winds. So we land at DBQ, I taxi over to the
FBO for a quick pit stop. Got back in the plane, got ATIS, contacted ground and
given taxi instruction to 36. So I'm # 2 in line, just finish mag check and
now I'm # 1. Start to move forward and seemed like the pedals were hare to
steer. I quickly think I got a flat nosewheel, and shut down the engine, worried
that I might strike the prop. Anyway, contact ground told them on problem and
plane behind me says yep it is flat.

FBO sends a truck to fill the tire, but the air rushed out almost as fast as it
entered. SO we now need a tow back to FBO. 2.5 hrs later I have new tire and
tube and we are off back to KUGN. Luckily I take the old tire & tube back.
Since the plane is owned by the club I'm a member in.

The general manager said I will be reimbursed for the repair, but was curious
about the flat. I was too since the tire looked to be relatively new.
In fact it was only replaced 2 weeks prior. The problem apparently was that
some of the steel cord must have popped up through the tires sidewall and
punctured the tub. If you rub your hand over the inside you can feel the steel
wire protruding through the sidewall.

Does this kind of thing happen frequently. Did I over react by shutting down
the engine, but I was really did not want to add a prop strike
to ruin my day?

Could side load or bad landings, bouncing on the nose cause such a failure?
My landing just prior to the this occurring was fine, mains first, then slowly
down on the nose. Just curious. Also, what would happen if the tire went flat
during flight? I guess I would know the minute the nose settled on the runway.
If that happened, all I could do is hold the nose off by pulling back on the yolk.

Kevin Kubiak PP-ASEL

"Kevin Kubiak" wrote in message The problem apparently was that
some of the steel cord must have popped up through the tires sidewall and
punctured the tub. If you rub your hand over the inside you can feel the
steel
wire protruding through the sidewall. Does this kind of thing happen
frequently.

It doesn't happen frequently, but it does happen. I learned the hard way
that replacing the valve stem along with the tube is cheap insurance. I also
learned that many flats are the result of the tube being folded back on
itself during installation, causing a pinch or a crease in the tube which
quickly rubs a hole.

Did I over react by shutting down
the engine, but I was really did not want to add a prop strike
to ruin my day?

You did the right thing. Taxiing with a flat tire can cause a lot of damage.
No sense in adding unneccessary risk.

Also, what would happen if the tire went flat
during flight? I guess I would know the minute the nose settled on the
runway.
If that happened, all I could do is hold the nose off by pulling back on
the yolk.

Landing with a flat can cause problems because of the severe vibrations. I
landed a C-337 with a flat main tire. It was controllable throughout but the
vibrations were so bad that the brake pads departed the gear. A Cessna 400
series won't taxi at slow speeds with a flat nose tire. The tire just cocks
to the side and that's the end.

D.