30 Years Since Edmund Fitgerald

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours

I always thought this was "waves" turned the minutes to hours.

It is. THAT is posted incorrectly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

lol, no...the POST-Revolutionary war, meaning the use afterwards....during
the War of Northern Agression :0


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

The post Revolutionary War one.....as in Damn Yankee


Wouldn't that one mean all Americans?



jf - Still holding a 140 year old grudge


Are you mixing your wars? The War Between the States ended 140 years ago,
the Revolutionary War ended 222 years ago.

Stinkpotter checking in! I'm pretty sure grounding on a shoal hasn't been
ruled out entirely. Came across this letter from an old salt who knew
many of the lost:

Letter from Duane Bartlett - Sailor of Great Lakes

(sailed with some of the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald)



-Duane Bartlett, now almost 80, shared this letter that he wrote to his
son, in memory of the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald.



Nov. 7, 2000....Today I celebrate 3/4 of a Century on this earth. Some
thoughts of this "Old Lonesome Sailor" as I was sometime known among my
fellow shipmates. I sailed on the Great Lakes for 35 years without missing
a days work for the Columbia Transportation Company. As I observe my
birthday I am reminded of a journey I began on another birthday in 1975.



My ship, the M/V Joseph H. Frantz, had departed Toledo. Ohio with a cargo
of coal for Ashland, Wisconsin, which is on the West end of Lake Superior.
We entered Lake Superior on the morning of Nov. 10th. At approx. 1600 we
pass abeam of Eagle Harbor, the middle of Lake Superior. As the sun set I
was aware of a strange phenomenon...the sky was a odd, strange, peculiar
color and the water was a glassy slate gray...as if brooding. Indeed it
was. By the midnight watch the wind had reached hurricane strength and
the waves looked like mountains...we were struggling to reach the lee of
Madaline Island in the Apostle Islands where we could find safe anchorage.
We finally managed to come around under the island and drop two anchors to
hold us until the storm abated. I have never rolled a ship as hard as we
did that night.



In another part of the Big Lake Gitchee Gumee the Steamer Edmund
Fitzgerald, the Columbia Fleet's Flagship, and the pride of the Fleet had
sailed from Superior, Wis. Radio communication between ships on the Lakes
is limited to about 50 miles so we had heard nothing from the Fitz. We did
not even know of her problems until we went to anchor and someone caught a
message from the Coast Guard about the Fitz being missing. By morning we
had made contact with our fleet dispatchers and they informed us of the
nights events. The Fitz was missing somewhere near Whitefish Point. The
storm was so severe that the Coast Guard was unable to send search vessels
out for some hours. The ship was eventually found under 500 feet of water
15 miles from the safety of the lee of Whitefish Point. The only things
that was ever found was a wrecked lifeboat and some other debris from on
the decks. No bodies were ever found. Lake Superior never gives up her
dead. The Fitz went down without a warning. No distress call...no
nothing...she simply just disappeared from the lake. A ship following
behind radioed the Coast Guard that the Fitz had dropped off his radar and
vanished. The Pride of the Great Lakes Fleet had gone to the bottom in a
wild storm of such force that the she had no opportunity to send a May
Day.



The sinking of the Fitz was a deep blow to me...I had the privilege of
working with and knowing all the men on the Fitz. I had worked with
Captain McSorley for 9 years and with First Mate Jack McCarthy for 12
years. I loved them dearly. I knew all of the other crew members and had
worked with most of them at one time or another. I was very saddened by
this turn of events as was all the other seamen of the Great Lakes.



On this occasion of my 75 birthday I think of that November Gale that took
the lives of my friends. I am reminded how sweet life is and how short it
can be in reality. I listen to the tribute of Gordon Lightfoot and his
rendition of his song The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald and my eyes well
with tears and I relive all the misery of that fateful night in that
Hurricane West Wind of November 10, 1975. I am grateful to have survived
to relate this story to you. It is etched in my memory forever. I salute
the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald.



-The Old Lonesome Sailor....Duane Bartlett

Letter from Duane Bartlett - Sailor of Great Lakes

(sailed with some of the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald)

Big Snip of Great Letter

Thanks for sharing that, Skylune. I had a friend who worked one summer
on lake freighters, and he said it was the hardest work he'd ever done.


I can't imagine working 35 years on the lakes...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
Stinkpotter checking in! I'm pretty sure grounding on a shoal hasn't been
ruled out entirely.

There was no shoal, it was a chart error showing an incorrect depth. The
charts showed something like 6 fathoms instead of 16 fathoms. Some Great
Lakes depths were sounded in the late 1800s and have not been recharted or
verified since.

by "Jay Honeck" Nov 21, 2005 at 12:01 PM


Letter from Duane Bartlett - Sailor of Great Lakes

(sailed with some of the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald)

Big Snip of Great Letter

Thanks for sharing that, Skylune. I had a friend who worked one summer
on lake freighters, and he said it was the hardest work he'd ever done.


I can't imagine working 35 years on the lakes...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Of all the air and sea disasters our nation has experienced, there is
SOMETHING about the "Fitz" that is moving, even after 30 years. Maybe
its the mystery concerning the sudden sinking, or the randomness of Mother
Nature. Its strange, because in terms of lives lost, it doesn't approach
larger sea (Titanic, General Slocum) or airborne catastrophes.

by "Dave Stadt" Nov 21, 2005 at 09:24 PM


"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
Stinkpotter checking in! I'm pretty sure grounding on a shoal hasn't
been
ruled out entirely.

There was no shoal, it was a chart error showing an incorrect depth. The
charts showed something like 6 fathoms instead of 16 fathoms. Some
Great
Lakes depths were sounded in the late 1800s and have not been recharted
or
verified since.

I hadn't seen that before. It's interesting to read the original NTSB
accident report, which never really did reach a definitive conclusion.
In fact, there was a "dissenting opinion" if I recall correctly. I did a
term paper on this waay back in my undergrad days, so the details aren't
fresh. Dave: Can you tell me where you found that info? Thanks.

No context needed he NTSB report is attached (long, but there is a
dissenting opinion: don't think I've ever seen that before on an NTSB
report). I think the report is nearly as haunting as the Lightfoot
ballad.



http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/...TSBReport.html

I wrote:

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.


Snip

I posted the lyrics as a gesture, I suppose. I'm surprised at the
response.

In reference to the line

"That good ship and true..."

I agree with the poster that intereprets this as a
hmmm...vernacular thing. As in, "A good friend and true". "Crew" works
better,absolutely, but to my ear, and appreciating the art of poetics, I
believe it's "true".

In Re the line:

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours?"

"Waves" works much better here, but again, having listened (loop,
MP3) and thinking about it, I believe "words". Why?

It's about communicating your dire situation, and pilots would feel
this, for sure, because the time frame of an emergency for an aviator is
much smaller than for a ship's captain.

Radio, static, wind and noise... "We need help how soon can...."

Radio, static, wind and noise.....

"Say again, Edmund"
"your position"
& ETC.

Words. For a human being in extremis and trying to communicate, and
needing a miracle during a helluva storm, a ship's radio, "way back"
then could indeed turn the minutes to hours.

My .02

~Dave

I posted the lyrics as a gesture, I suppose. I'm surprised at the
response.

There is no finer tribute than to have people singing about you long
after you are gone. It is a fine song.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.