MU 2 Crash just after TO

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...argo_plane_051
221/20051221?hub=TopStories



A pilot and co-pilot died instantly when their small plane crashed in
British Columbia Tuesday night. The cargo plane crashed at about 6:30 p.m.,
less than a minute after taking off from Terrace, B.C., a northern community
located about 145 kilometres from Prince Rupert.

Staff at the Terrace Airport noticed a fireball in the woods beyond the
airfield almost immediately after the plane took off. Airport officials said
the runway was in good shape, but that there was freezing rain at the time
of accident.

Investigators from the Transportation Safety Board will determine whether
the Navair plane had been properly de-iced.

"We know that Navair pilots are tasked with own de-icing," Bill Yearwood, an
investigator with the Transportation Safety Board told CTV Vancouver. "They
do not contract out their de-icing, so they would not line up with other
aircraft for de-icing. They would do it themselves."

Ice accumulation can actually change the shape of the wings of a plane, and
de-icing is a mandatory safety precaution. But keeping a record of the
process is not. Investigators will have to rely on witnesses do determine
whether the procedure was performed before the plane took-off.

The Navair charter courier aircraft -- a twin-engine, MU2 Mitsubishi
plane -- was heading to Vancouver at the time of the crash.

The same type of aircraft is currently being investigated by the U.S.
aviation industry. In the past 20 months there have been 12 accidents
involving MU2 planes, and 14 people have died.



I remember someone bringing up the issue of the MU2's and the recent crashes
that have occured regarding the Mitsubishi aircraft and Mike Rappaport
defending the safety record of the MU2.

In this case I feel that this crash may have more to do with the weather and
possibly the crews haste to get into the air.



Gary

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...argo_plane_051
221/20051221?hub=TopStories


for some reason the link didn't work so I'll try again

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...argo_plane_051
221/20051221?hub=TopStories


for some reason the link didn't work so I'll try again

The link got split by a carriage return. You need to patch it back
together manually, rather than click on it.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article TaBqf.169597$Gd6.80548@pd7tw3no, Gary
wrote:

...there was freezing rain at the time of accident...

"We know that Navair pilots are tasked with own de-icing," Bill
Yearwood, an investigator with [the TSB]... they would not line up with
other aircraft for de-icing. They would do it themselves."

In this case I feel that this crash may have more to do with the weather and
possibly the crews haste to get into the air.

I don't read it that way. I read it that the crew deiced themselves
properly, but it took some time to get back in the plane, get it
started up, run the checklists, and get to the runway -- more time than
the deicing fluid was effective.

I'm not sure what the intensity of the freezing rain was in the above
accident. At my company, we're prohibited from taking off with
freezing rain other than "light." And with even light FZRA, Type I
fluid (the heated stuff) only gets us 2-5 minutes of protection. And
if they even had Type IV (cold gel) available, that might only provide
5-10 minutes of protection, depending on the air temperature and the
mix ratio.

I'd bet the fluid became ineffective on the way to the runway, and with
the high wing, they couldn't see it.

Sad.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=
http://www.garnermiller.com/

Ahhhh so that is what is happening!! Thanks!


"Jose" wrote in message
.. .

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...argo_plane_051
221/20051221?hub=TopStories


for some reason the link didn't work so I'll try again

The link got split by a carriage return. You need to patch it back
together manually, rather than click on it.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I agree!


"Garner Miller" wrote in message
...
In article TaBqf.169597$Gd6.80548@pd7tw3no, Gary
wrote:

...there was freezing rain at the time of accident...

"We know that Navair pilots are tasked with own de-icing," Bill
Yearwood, an investigator with [the TSB]... they would not line up with
other aircraft for de-icing. They would do it themselves."

In this case I feel that this crash may have more to do with the weather
and
possibly the crews haste to get into the air.

I don't read it that way. I read it that the crew deiced themselves
properly, but it took some time to get back in the plane, get it
started up, run the checklists, and get to the runway -- more time than
the deicing fluid was effective.

I'm not sure what the intensity of the freezing rain was in the above
accident. At my company, we're prohibited from taking off with
freezing rain other than "light." And with even light FZRA, Type I
fluid (the heated stuff) only gets us 2-5 minutes of protection. And
if they even had Type IV (cold gel) available, that might only provide
5-10 minutes of protection, depending on the air temperature and the
mix ratio.

I'd bet the fluid became ineffective on the way to the runway, and with
the high wing, they couldn't see it.

Sad.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=
http://www.garnermiller.com/

I don't see where it says that the airplane was deiced at all. All it says
is that the company does not use the airports deicing service.

Mike
MU-2


"Garner Miller" wrote in message
...
In article TaBqf.169597$Gd6.80548@pd7tw3no, Gary
wrote:

...there was freezing rain at the time of accident...

"We know that Navair pilots are tasked with own de-icing," Bill
Yearwood, an investigator with [the TSB]... they would not line up with
other aircraft for de-icing. They would do it themselves."

In this case I feel that this crash may have more to do with the weather
and
possibly the crews haste to get into the air.

I don't read it that way. I read it that the crew deiced themselves
properly, but it took some time to get back in the plane, get it
started up, run the checklists, and get to the runway -- more time than
the deicing fluid was effective.

I'm not sure what the intensity of the freezing rain was in the above
accident. At my company, we're prohibited from taking off with
freezing rain other than "light." And with even light FZRA, Type I
fluid (the heated stuff) only gets us 2-5 minutes of protection. And
if they even had Type IV (cold gel) available, that might only provide
5-10 minutes of protection, depending on the air temperature and the
mix ratio.

I'd bet the fluid became ineffective on the way to the runway, and with
the high wing, they couldn't see it.

Sad.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=
http://www.garnermiller.com/

Also, the MU2 uses spoilers for roll control, they could
have been frozen down in the flush position by the rain.
Freezing rain is the worst and as was said, taking off with
an unknown amount of ice on all surfaces, unbalanced
controls, frozen tabs, ice covered static ports is just
plain foolish. But I guess the crew had a schedule to keep.
Freezing rain is bad enough in flight even with a full
certified de-icing system, but on the ground the rain will
cover the whole airframe and if the anti-ice systems do
work, they will only remove ice from leading edges and
engine inlets and the props. There would remain a ridge of
ice just behind the leading edges, acting as a spoiler.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
Merry Christmas
Have a Safe and Happy New Year
Live Long and Prosper
Jim Macklin
"Garner Miller" wrote in message
...
| In article TaBqf.169597$Gd6.80548@pd7tw3no, Gary
| wrote:
|
| ...there was freezing rain at the time of accident...
|
| "We know that Navair pilots are tasked with own
de-icing," Bill
| Yearwood, an investigator with [the TSB]... they would
not line up with
| other aircraft for de-icing. They would do it
themselves."
|
| In this case I feel that this crash may have more to do
with the weather and
| possibly the crews haste to get into the air.
|
| I don't read it that way. I read it that the crew deiced
themselves
| properly, but it took some time to get back in the plane,
get it
| started up, run the checklists, and get to the runway --
more time than
| the deicing fluid was effective.
|
| I'm not sure what the intensity of the freezing rain was
in the above
| accident. At my company, we're prohibited from taking off
with
| freezing rain other than "light." And with even light
FZRA, Type I
| fluid (the heated stuff) only gets us 2-5 minutes of
protection. And
| if they even had Type IV (cold gel) available, that might
only provide
| 5-10 minutes of protection, depending on the air
temperature and the
| mix ratio.
|
| I'd bet the fluid became ineffective on the way to the
runway, and with
| the high wing, they couldn't see it.
|
| Sad.
|
| --
| Garner R. Miller
| ATP/CFII/MEI
| Clifton Park, NY =USA=
| http://www.garnermiller.com/

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:39:27 GMT, "Gary" wrote:


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...argo_plane_051
221/20051221?hub=TopStories


for some reason the link didn't work so I'll try again

Copy the link, and go to tinyurl.com. It will generate a tinyURL that
will not line-wrap.

http://tinyurl.com/c8333

In article , Nathan Young
wrote:

Copy the link, and go to tinyurl.com. It will generate a tinyURL that
will not line-wrap.

Or, just enclose the link in angle brackets, and many newsreaders will
ignore the line break and treat it as a single link:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...221/cargo_plan
e_051221/20051221?hub=TopStories

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=
http://www.garnermiller.com/