Round Engines

Morgans wrote:

If you go too long with pain and numbness in your foot, or any other
part, even if the surgery is done and is successful, the pain and
numbness can become a permanent thing.

Thanks for that info. My numbness is erratic, and I can usually hold it at bay
with my exercises. I wondered at times if I was running some risks of damage
elsewhere.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

What did you teach Vince?

I taught courses on the economics of communications, in the College of
Communications. Occasionally a course for the economics department,
when it was short-handed.

vince norris

"Matt Whiting" wrote

The artificial disk unit has essentially a partial titanium vertebrate on
each side of the polymer disk. This is glued (maybe also screwed, I don't
know) to the OEM bone vertebrate much the way artificial hips and knees
are put in.

That sounds like a new technology disc, than the ones I looked at a couple
of years ago; they just sat in there, held in by the surrounding soft
tissue. That isn't surprising; medical tech move at a very fast rate.

In this scenario, I'm not sure why they couldn't break apart a fused area,
but maybe it is simply too aggressive a procedure to do with the spinal
cord in the middle.

I would think the amount of bone added in the fusion is the biggest factor.
Basically, all the space that the normal disc occupied, is filled with bone,
now. That would be a lot to remove, especially like you said, right next to
the spinal chord.
--
Jim in NC

Gentlemen~
Listening to you folks is like reading my diary! Numb right foot with
exteme tingling, pain from the butt to the big toe (but no back pain) and
one surgery that did very little to remedy the situation. The next
recommended step is fusion. I'm not biting! Just missed a segment on TV
describing a non-invasive new treatment for the situation! I haven't found
it yet but will continue to look. Best of luck, Vince

I'm just a 3350 guy (AC-119K).

--Walt Weaver
Bozeman, Montana

A few years ago I toured the Garber Facility in DC. They were in the middle
of restoring an original Newport that Cole Palen had donated after using it
for years at Rhinebeck. When they cut off the fabric, the entire tail fell
off! The fabric was all that was keeping it on. Must have been really
interesting there in the early days.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
The old days at Rhinebeck when the Cole Palen crowd were there are
remembered by many who frequented the place. The nostalgia of that
operation during those days ranks right up there with Pancho's out at
Edwards. Both places bring back some of the finest "just hanging out"
moments in aviation history in the United States.
I seem to remember some trouble going on there a few years back concerning
the running of the operation by a new board of directors at the museum but
I don't have a real handle on what it was all about.
Propping a Le' Rhone might have been a job for Arnold Swartzenegger at
that :-)))
Dudley

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:TISzf.1495$id.1100@trnddc04...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Are you kidding George?

A saw some guys try to start a Camel once at Rhinebeck. They went through
the rigamarole of pulling it through and then Hercules (we'll call him)
started flipping the prop. It wouldn't even backfire. The poor guy rocked
that prop through about 20 times or so.

When he was worn out, another fellow came up to try his luck. He rocked
up on one leg and whipped the prop down and the engine fired right up.
Hercules was ready to beat the guy to death!

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
your slightly older self.

In article .com,
" wrote:

I'm just a 3350 guy (AC-119K).

Walt, tell us some stories!

Dudley

Guess you never flew the P-80 A/B?

The boost pump was the main fuel pump from the P-59. Was a monster
that pulled something like 20+ amps.

Once you got an indication of TPT you used both hands and pulled the
throttle back just into edge of idle cut off and then pushed out to
the idle position. This cycling let you keep the TPT from exceeding
limits as engine spooled up to idle. As the RPM rose you reached a
point where the starter dropped out and the TPT kept staying in limits
without cycling the throttle and as RPM stabilized in idle you also
had the idle TPT.

Flying that early small engine (3850 lbs thrust), if you had to go
around in the pattern it took over 20 seconds from idle to full power.
Really had to stay ahead of bird in pattern. Lot of 51/47 jocks
checking out had trouble with this.

Shut down was easy. Let idle for a minute or two to stabilize temps
and then go to idle cut off and clean cockpit up.

At Willie (first jet school) we had the 'Captive Air'. This was a
P-80A mounted on supports (concrete/steel) with gear not touching
ground. This trainer let us put a student in cockpit and standing on
wing talk him through an engine start and simulated flight. (Start
engine and then cycle gear and flaps like would happen on a real
flight.) Last time I was at Willie for a reunion (they then had
T-38's) the Captive Air facility across the field had been torn down
and not saved for posterity (

Been a long time since I thought about the early jets. We killed at
least one student a month and a instructor every quarter at Willie
when we started student jet training for Korea.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:29:53 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
Dudley

Those were the good old days but we only realize it now )

The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D).

Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today
for those who haven't heard one start and run.

Hundreds of hours behind a R1340.


Big John

I have a few hours in the Jug (N) and some time in the Bearcat. Preferred
the 51 for show work, but the cat was a real ride coming off the deck with
some excess power to convert :-))
Never flew the 4360, but I had a friend who had one in his Corsair. He used
to laugh like hell when he told me that it sometimes took him more time to
get it started than it did to make the flight he started it for.
I've always wondered what the hell everybody thought was so damn hard about
flying the jets. That little list of humor you posted is just about right
on.
In the T38, you climb in; push the start buttons and watch the temps rise,
then you point it where you want it to go and hang on. (of course it helps
if you actually HAVE it pointed where you want it to go when you hit the
burners :-).
You can fly the T38 all day long without touching the rudder pedals, and
that includes aerobatics!!
It's great to be able to look back on all that fun. :-)))
Dudley

Hi John;
Never flew the P80, but I remember those early days during the transition
period from props to jets quite well. The loss rates were high as a kite as
you have stated. But I'll bet you'll agree that in spite of it all, Willie
and Luke were the places to be in those days.:-))
Starting those early jets J33's, J47's etc really kept you guys on your toes
balancing throttle and temps. Phrases like "bringing it around the horn" and
"hot start" were quite commonly heard on the flight line back then and
hardly heard any more.
By contrast, the T38 is a "push to start" "go fast" buggy. :-)
Putting a bird on a stand and running it was a great idea, although I
remember the day Scott Crossfield blew the tail off the X15 at Edwards doing
an engine testbed ground test on the XLR99 engine. He said it was quite
funny really.
They put him in the bird and everybody else went into the blockhouse. They
called it "developing the confidence of the pilot" :-) When it blew, the
front half of the airplane actually flew forward off the stand about 20
feet. I always said, Crossfield should have logged the time! :-))
Dudley




"Big John" wrote in message
...
Dudley

Guess you never flew the P-80 A/B?

The boost pump was the main fuel pump from the P-59. Was a monster
that pulled something like 20+ amps.

Once you got an indication of TPT you used both hands and pulled the
throttle back just into edge of idle cut off and then pushed out to
the idle position. This cycling let you keep the TPT from exceeding
limits as engine spooled up to idle. As the RPM rose you reached a
point where the starter dropped out and the TPT kept staying in limits
without cycling the throttle and as RPM stabilized in idle you also
had the idle TPT.

Flying that early small engine (3850 lbs thrust), if you had to go
around in the pattern it took over 20 seconds from idle to full power.
Really had to stay ahead of bird in pattern. Lot of 51/47 jocks
checking out had trouble with this.

Shut down was easy. Let idle for a minute or two to stabilize temps
and then go to idle cut off and clean cockpit up.

At Willie (first jet school) we had the 'Captive Air'. This was a
P-80A mounted on supports (concrete/steel) with gear not touching
ground. This trainer let us put a student in cockpit and standing on
wing talk him through an engine start and simulated flight. (Start
engine and then cycle gear and flaps like would happen on a real
flight.) Last time I was at Willie for a reunion (they then had
T-38's) the Captive Air facility across the field had been torn down
and not saved for posterity (

Been a long time since I thought about the early jets. We killed at
least one student a month and a instructor every quarter at Willie
when we started student jet training for Korea.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:29:53 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Big John" wrote in message
. ..
Dudley

Those were the good old days but we only realize it now )

The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D).

Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today
for those who haven't heard one start and run.

Hundreds of hours behind a R1340.


Big John

I have a few hours in the Jug (N) and some time in the Bearcat. Preferred
the 51 for show work, but the cat was a real ride coming off the deck with
some excess power to convert :-))
Never flew the 4360, but I had a friend who had one in his Corsair. He
used
to laugh like hell when he told me that it sometimes took him more time to
get it started than it did to make the flight he started it for.
I've always wondered what the hell everybody thought was so damn hard
about
flying the jets. That little list of humor you posted is just about right
on.
In the T38, you climb in; push the start buttons and watch the temps rise,
then you point it where you want it to go and hang on. (of course it helps
if you actually HAVE it pointed where you want it to go when you hit the
burners :-).
You can fly the T38 all day long without touching the rudder pedals, and
that includes aerobatics!!
It's great to be able to look back on all that fun. :-)))
Dudley

Dudley

Some more on that era and Willie.

The Air Cadet Class of 49C (?) graduated and in 6 months half had
killed themselves in operational Squadrons.

This caused the Training Command to fire everyone at Willie and bring
in a new group of instructors and a new Training Group Commander (Leon
"the peon" Gray). The new instructors were rotating pilots from
Fighter Squadrons in Far East and Europe, about 15 from each. I came
in from 8th FG in Japan and was an instructor in CIS (Central
Instructor School) there until all the newbe's were checked out in
back seat of T-6 and picked up students. F-80/T-33 check outs were
conducted in the Training Sections (#1 and #2) after finishing the
days instruction with students. My good buddy from 35th Squadron in
Japan gave me half a dozen touch and goes in T bird and signed me off.
I then went and said I want a F-80 and they gave me one and I went and
flew it. Not like the highly supervised checkouts today.

The F-80C and T Birds all had the semi automatic starting system with
the 'big' engine. Much easier to start and rarely a hot start unless
you started with tail pointing into a strong wind.

When I hit Willie, Luke had been closed and Willie sent tower
operators (mobile unit) and crash crew over when we started a new
class and used it for touch and goes on student check outs to relieve
traffic at Willie.

Korea started and they reactivated Luke and expanded Nellis. One story
about Nellis, they had a snack bar on corner of ramp nearest to
Runway. A student lost control of a 51 and ran into it and destroyed
it. No one got hurt in the crash which was a miracle. Didn't repair
but moved it to a new building on line.

On Scott and engine test. As I recall they didn't have the tail on and
were just running the new BIG engine to exercise the controls and give
him experience operating it. Think I saw it that way taxiing by before
it blew up? Lucky to have survived (with no injuries). Some bar talk
about not wanting to fly that bomb )

Your right about Willie and the rest of those fields. Right in the
middle of things. As student flow continued and losses in Korea were
less than 'progged' they backed up at Willie as Luke and Nellis
couldn't accept them. I helped to set up some Air to Air camera
training in T-33's to keep them busy and give them a head start on air
to air combat. It was fun to put them on the perch for a high side
attack. Did have one or two run into the target as happened in aerial
gunnery when you pushed )

If I haven't said, after leaving Willie went to Hamilton and ADC,
F-94C (best supersonic airplane I ever flew), F-89 (all versions after
'C') and tour with Navy VF-23 (Big Banshee, F2H3)and F-101B.

Enough war stories for today. My new computer (Athlon 3300 64) is
running infant morality mode and so far so good.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:06:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

Hi John;
Never flew the P80, but I remember those early days during the transition
period from props to jets quite well. The loss rates were high as a kite as
you have stated. But I'll bet you'll agree that in spite of it all, Willie
and Luke were the places to be in those days.:-))
Starting those early jets J33's, J47's etc really kept you guys on your toes
balancing throttle and temps. Phrases like "bringing it around the horn" and
"hot start" were quite commonly heard on the flight line back then and
hardly heard any more.
By contrast, the T38 is a "push to start" "go fast" buggy. :-)
Putting a bird on a stand and running it was a great idea, although I
remember the day Scott Crossfield blew the tail off the X15 at Edwards doing
an engine testbed ground test on the XLR99 engine. He said it was quite
funny really.
They put him in the bird and everybody else went into the blockhouse. They
called it "developing the confidence of the pilot" :-) When it blew, the
front half of the airplane actually flew forward off the stand about 20
feet. I always said, Crossfield should have logged the time! :-))
Dudley




"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
Dudley

Guess you never flew the P-80 A/B?

The boost pump was the main fuel pump from the P-59. Was a monster
that pulled something like 20+ amps.

Once you got an indication of TPT you used both hands and pulled the
throttle back just into edge of idle cut off and then pushed out to
the idle position. This cycling let you keep the TPT from exceeding
limits as engine spooled up to idle. As the RPM rose you reached a
point where the starter dropped out and the TPT kept staying in limits
without cycling the throttle and as RPM stabilized in idle you also
had the idle TPT.

Flying that early small engine (3850 lbs thrust), if you had to go
around in the pattern it took over 20 seconds from idle to full power.
Really had to stay ahead of bird in pattern. Lot of 51/47 jocks
checking out had trouble with this.

Shut down was easy. Let idle for a minute or two to stabilize temps
and then go to idle cut off and clean cockpit up.

At Willie (first jet school) we had the 'Captive Air'. This was a
P-80A mounted on supports (concrete/steel) with gear not touching
ground. This trainer let us put a student in cockpit and standing on
wing talk him through an engine start and simulated flight. (Start
engine and then cycle gear and flaps like would happen on a real
flight.) Last time I was at Willie for a reunion (they then had
T-38's) the Captive Air facility across the field had been torn down
and not saved for posterity (

Been a long time since I thought about the early jets. We killed at
least one student a month and a instructor every quarter at Willie
when we started student jet training for Korea.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:29:53 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Big John" wrote in message
...
Dudley

Those were the good old days but we only realize it now )

The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D).

Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today
for those who haven't heard one start and run.

Hundreds of hours behind a R1340.


Big John

I have a few hours in the Jug (N) and some time in the Bearcat. Preferred
the 51 for show work, but the cat was a real ride coming off the deck with
some excess power to convert :-))
Never flew the 4360, but I had a friend who had one in his Corsair. He
used
to laugh like hell when he told me that it sometimes took him more time to
get it started than it did to make the flight he started it for.
I've always wondered what the hell everybody thought was so damn hard
about
flying the jets. That little list of humor you posted is just about right
on.
In the T38, you climb in; push the start buttons and watch the temps rise,
then you point it where you want it to go and hang on. (of course it helps
if you actually HAVE it pointed where you want it to go when you hit the
burners :-).
You can fly the T38 all day long without touching the rudder pedals, and
that includes aerobatics!!
It's great to be able to look back on all that fun. :-)))
Dudley