Knee Jerks

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Arketip wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:
buttman wrote:

is crashing not a part of piloting?

Not if you are a good pilot.

Matt

So, you are saying that all the pilots that had a crash are bad pilots?

How about this: Can one be a bad pilot who has never crashed?


Sure, we call them lucky.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

"Skylune" wrote in message
For goodness sakes, a plane crash is NEWS!

And you know why it's news Lune? Because it is still fairly rare. Much as
the VP shooting a hunting partner is rare.


Which is why multiple death traffic accidents seldom get a mention. An
event that occurs over 40,000 times a year is not news.

by "Jay Honeck" Feb 14, 2006 at 02:39 PM



You guys are starting to scare me with this "Fate is the Hunter" hocus
pocus. We have specifically and explicitly stated that mechanical
breakdowns are NOT a part of this discussion.

If all mechanical causes are eliminated, wouldn't it by definition come
down to some sort of piloting error? (Which doesn't equate to Bad Pilot.)


Don't you thinks it is normally a combination of factors for so called
Good Pilots? In some cases, its obvious that the crash is mainly due to a
stupid pilot (like the idiot who just crashed into the house in Ca.) In
others, something goes wrong and conditions amplify the problem (e.g. the
carburateor heater craps out when you're on your last 15 gallons, the
pattern is crowded, and there's lots of chatter on the radio).

by "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net Feb 14, 2006 at 08:46 AM

And you know why it's news Lune? Because it is still fairly rare. Much as

the VP shooting a hunting partner is rare.

Jeez, that sounds like it came from the AOPA "How to Talk to the Media"
guide....

You actually think if there were more small plane crashes, they would no
longer make news??! If 50 more planes crash into homes this year, you
think the media will stop reporting?? Thats rich.

And on those (thankfully, rare) occasions where I have exhibited
poor judgment, or insufficient skills, I was acting as a "Bad Pilot".

You are confusing "being a bad pilot" with "acting as a bad pilot".
Maybe that's where the FAA gets this stuff.

If you use the words "bad pilot" to refer to momentary events and
transgressions, you have made it equivalent to "made a mistake", while
retaining the pejorative connotations of "habitually makes mistakes".
It's great catharsis, but harms people's reputations unnecessarily, and
also detracts from understanding and learning from mistakes.

However, if one makes errors that result in crashing, one is a REALLY "Bad
Pilot".

You are confusing "error" with "unfortunate outcome". One can make
errors that actually improve the outcome, and one can do correct things
that lead to unfortunate outcomes. The outcome merely draws attention
to the chain of events, which may or may not contain significant errors.

If I were to crash as the result of making a poor decision, or
because of inadequate piloting skills, I would expect -- no, DEMAND -- that
you guys rip me to shreds posthumously for being a "Bad Pilot" -- because
that's exactly what I would have been.

No.

You are (I'm making this up) a "bad pilot" because you routinely buzz
the hotel carrying hotel guests, you routinely go flying before you go
flying, you routinely skip the preflight as long as you're at your home
airport, and you never plan for reserves. However, you've been lucky
for tweny years and have never so much as scratched paint.

One day your daughter gets into a car crash in Michigan. She's ok, but
a bit shaken up. The hotel biz isn't doing all that well, and you were
thinking of your usual 100LL therapy, and this gives you a great excuse
to take to the skies to see your daughter and to bring her home. Up you
go, flying a route you've done many times before. The weather's good,
the gas tanks are full, and the whole day is ahead of you. You start
thinking about your daughter, and the last time you saw her (and got
into an argument with her about something silly like a boyfriend) and
realize how close this was to the last time you would ever see her.

The engine stumbles, you ram everything forward, but it's too late. In
your slightly distracted state you didn't realize how good conditions
were for forming carb ice, and neglected to apply it soon enough.
You're over some hills under an overcast, and at 3000 feet there isn't a
lot in range for a dead stick. But you can do this (you have little
choice) and pick a nice road or field that's sort of flat, you think.
It's a little gusty down in the hills, and the field isn't quite as flat
as you had hoped. You touch down nicely and the nose wheel catches a rut.

Oops... forgot to tighten the seat belt. Ouch.

You were =unlucky=.

You also made a mistake (carb heat, seat belt)

You arguably excercised bad judgement (flying while under stress because
you didn't even realize that her little car accident would affect you
that way, applying 100LL therapy when the hotel gets you down).

However these things don't make you a "bad pilot". What made you a bad
pilot was all the other stuff I made up earlier. But even a good pilot
could make the mistakes I just described. They sneak up on you, leaving
a bigger window for luck to enter.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

by "Dave Stadt" Feb 14, 2006 at 03:03 PM



Which is why multiple death traffic accidents seldom get a mention. An
event that occurs over 40,000 times a year is not news.

Multiple death traffic accidents seldom get mention?? There are ALWAYS
stories about fatal car accidents in every non-national paper I read. Of
course the NY Times won't report on a fatal car accident in Detroit, but
the Detroit press certainly will.

Fatal accidents (planes, cars, boats, skiing, hunting, snowmobiling,
bicycling, surfing, scuba diving, etc. etc. etc.) ARE news.

The fact that so many are discussing this stuff here verifies that fatal
crashes are news.

by Jose Feb 14, 2006 at 03:15 PM


And on those (thankfully, rare) occasions where I have exhibited
poor judgment, or insufficient skills, I was acting as a "Bad Pilot".

You are confusing "being a bad pilot" with "acting as a bad pilot".
Maybe that's where the FAA gets this stuff.

I'd fly in the right seat of your plane.

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
by "Dave Stadt" Feb 14, 2006 at 03:03 PM



Which is why multiple death traffic accidents seldom get a mention. An
event that occurs over 40,000 times a year is not news.

Multiple death traffic accidents seldom get mention?? There are ALWAYS
stories about fatal car accidents in every non-national paper I read. Of
course the NY Times won't report on a fatal car accident in Detroit, but
the Detroit press certainly will.

Thanks, you supported my point.

Jay Honeck wrote:
To sum up Denny's most excellent post: If you run out of gas (or do any of
the other stupid pilot tricks he outlined), you're a BAD PILOT -- period.

There's no need for humility or experience, nor should there be any debate.


That's a pretty harsh judgement for a man of relatively limited flying
experience. You'd do well to develop some tolerance for the day your luck
changes.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

ET wrote:
How many pilots who read about a few guys with dry tanks who bought it,
might be a bit more likely to divert for fuel rather than "push it"....
just one example....


You want a fuel rule that will serve you well your entire flying career? "If
you have to worry about fuel, you don't have enough".



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE