The new Pentagon video

wrote in news:1147928450.364812.197730
@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

cjcampbell wrote:

As I said, most of these conspiracy buffs are a bunch of holocaust
deniers and other enemies of the United States. In a just world they would
be tried and hanged as the terrorists and traitors that they are.


I differ with you somewhat here. The scenario you describe is
dangerously similar not to a just but an intolerant world. We should do
everything we can to preserve freedom of everything, speech included,
so stifling a dissenting voice is no solution. The best way to beat
such people down is with objective, irrefutable evidence although I
agree it'd involve the precious time of many.

Ramapriya

The only problem is that these folks are "true believers". There
is nothing you can give them as evidence that would dissuade them
from their "truth". They could be claiming the sky is fuscia and
even if you tape their eyelids open and force them to look at a
brilliant blue sky, they will find some way to say it's part of
the conspiracy and dismiss the evidence.

It's the whole science/pseudoscience problem. An interesting aspect
is that not only does the scientist know that the psuedoscientist
is wrong, but they even understand *WHY* the pseudoscientist thinks
the wrong things that they do!!!

Something I find amusing is these folks are always telling us to
"open our minds". Our minds are open. Their's are the closed ones.
They can't see that they are wrong, much less why. We can see both.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Skywise" wrote in message
...
wrote in news:1147928450.364812.197730
@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

cjcampbell wrote:

As I said, most of these conspiracy buffs are a bunch of holocaust
deniers and other enemies of the United States. In a just world they
would be tried and hanged as the terrorists and traitors that they are.

I differ with you somewhat here. The scenario you describe is
dangerously similar not to a just but an intolerant world. We should do
everything we can to preserve freedom of everything, speech included,
so stifling a dissenting voice is no solution. The best way to beat
such people down is with objective, irrefutable evidence although I
agree it'd involve the precious time of many.

The only problem is that these folks are "true believers". There
is nothing you can give them as evidence that would dissuade them
from their "truth".

CJ is a true believer too, albeit in a different bizarre mythology than that
of the conspiracy theorists. But unlike the conspiracy theorists, CJ
literally wants to kill people for espousing nonsense that's in competition
with his own.

CJ rationalizes his bloodlust by asserting that his would-be victims
themselves harbor such homicidal desires (they're "terrorists"). But he
makes that claim without a shred of evidence, because true believers don't
need any.

--Gary

Recently, Chris W posted:

Tom Conner wrote:

In the age of digital photography, and computer generated graphics,
no picture by itself can be believed. However, if eye witnesses
back up the picture then its accuracy becomes more reliable. Of
course, a good paranoid conspiracy believer will know that the eye
witnesses are really part of the clever diabolical plot by the
government to hide the truth.


I have to agree, there is nothing that will convince the conspiracy
morons. All the going to court to have this video released was just a
wast of time and money.

I don't think so. There are other issues involved; for example, the
struggle between those that want to make everything a secret vs. those
that feel that information should be readily available if not to everyone,
then at least to appointed officials. I also don't quite understand the
Pentagon's publilcly stated reason for *not* releasing the various videos
of the incident.

Neil

Recently, Ol Shy & Bashful posted:

Having been onsite for quite a number of airplane crashes, numerous
military aircraft, jets and piston, single and multi engine, the thing
that struck me was the lack of aircraft wreckage and the bodies of
occupants.
Curious that the hole was round and showed no evidence of the wings or
engines impacting the building. Large pieces of engines have been on
every crash site I ever photographed as part of an accident
investigation team.
I know the conspiracy buffs want to go someplace with it. I'd like to
know what in hell happened to all the aircraft parts and pieces? Even
the space shuittle left a lot of wreckage and bodies that were
identified from how big an explosion and how high?

I have to agree. I don't have any theories, conspiracy or otherwise, but I
would like to know what happened to all those parts that should have been
strewn over the vicinity.

Neil

Brian
High School classes and aircraft crash investigations? Wanking off?
Surely you jest? My post asked some questions. Do YOU have the
answers?
I HAVE NEVER been to an aircraft crash site, especially a jet aircraft,
that didn't leave big pieces of wreckage. The pieces that I saw in the
video were not impressive and hand held. The wreckage I am accustomed
to needed to be picked up by tow trucks and put on flat beds. Airspeeds
at time of impact varied but the only one I can think of off hand that
was really FAST is the space shuttle which was going how fast?
What is your contribution to making this country better? Talk is cheap.

wrote in message
oups.com...
cjcampbell wrote:

As I said, most of these conspiracy buffs are a bunch of holocaust
deniers and other enemies of the United States. In a just world they
would be tried and hanged as the terrorists and traitors that they
are.


I differ with you somewhat here. The scenario you describe is
dangerously similar not to a just but an intolerant world. We should do
everything we can to preserve freedom of everything, speech included,
so stifling a dissenting voice is no solution.



The best way to beat
such people down is with objective, irrefutable evidence although I
agree it'd involve the precious time of many.

That would only convince a few on the margin. Conspiracy nuts are not
rational people. Some get a kick out of messing with peoples heads. Some are
just seeking attention like kids being obnoxious. Some are just basket
cases.

Rather than suppress them, the best way is to let them speak. The
overwhelming majority of the time they refute themselves. The trick is:
don't respond to them directly; instead address the audience in general.
Convince the rational, don't waste time with the irrational. Remember that
reason only works with reasonable people.

"Skywise" wrote in message
...

The only problem is that these folks are "true believers". There
is nothing you can give them as evidence that would dissuade them
from their "truth". They could be claiming the sky is fuscia and
even if you tape their eyelids open and force them to look at a
brilliant blue sky, they will find some way to say it's part of
the conspiracy and dismiss the evidence.

It's the whole science/pseudoscience problem.


What you just described is a good assessment of _faith_.

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
oups.com...
Brian
High School classes and aircraft crash investigations? Wanking off?
Surely you jest? My post asked some questions. Do YOU have the
answers?
I HAVE NEVER been to an aircraft crash site, especially a jet aircraft,
that didn't leave big pieces of wreckage.

Whoopie Doo!

The biggest piece of wreckage at the Stewart Payne site was about 4" in
size. There was no fire, in contrast with an aircraft loaded with thousands
of gallons of fuel.

On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:17:55 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

I have to agree. I don't have any theories, conspiracy or otherwise, but I
would like to know what happened to all those parts that should have been
strewn over the vicinity.

Neil

I'm with ya there....

I helped recover the wreckage from an L-39 that hit the ground nearly
vertically going 500+ knots. Much of the vertical fin was still in
one piece. The impact crater was 10+ feet deep. The hot section of
the engine, though banged up, was very recognizable and we found it
50+ hundred yards away from the impact crater. We found a few smashed
instruments, a partial control stick, and lots of metal pieces the
size of your fist or smaller, some a little bigger (he biggest /
heaviest recognizable pieces were the landing gear assemblies).
It took us over a week to pick up all the bits and pieces, some of
which, ended up as far as a 1/4 of a mile away from the impact crater.


In a crash of this magnitude, you typically find small stuff literally
everywhere... like bits / lengths of wire for example... there are
miles of wire in an airliner...., bits and pieces of insulation,
plexiglas, etc. We found things you wouldn't think you'd find too,
like whole pages here and there out of an approach plate / book,
currency (coin & bill), the airframe data-plate, etc..

Bela P. Havasreti

On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:17:55 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

I have to agree. I don't have any theories, conspiracy or otherwise, but I
would like to know what happened to all those parts that should have been
strewn over the vicinity.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...html?page=&c=y