Advice, please: too old to fly?

"greenwavepilot" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well, I just hit 30 and realized that I am too old to finish my PPL,
and will never try again. Since the arrival of my kid I had to face the
hard cold fact that I could buy lessons and avgas or diapers and baby
food and daycare. So all my PPL stuff is currently on Ebay.

So...
I don't look up anymore when I hear that piston single.
I don't want to ever get near an aircraft again.
It makes me sick even thinking about it.

snip

Been there! Got the PPL then got married! We had two infant daughters. It was not possible to stay current and
feel safe flying only an hour or so a month. Regretfully, I let my magazine subscriptions lapse and tried to turn
away. Once smitten though, the ember wouldn't die. Once in a great while someone would offer me a ride. Then
finances ever so slowly got a bit better as my career progressed. I could afford things like a boat, then a few
years later, a travel trailer. Then a friend talked me into RC models. The same friend then talked me into a flying
club. (It didn't take much talking). Then an inexpensive Cherokee came up for sale and I started wondering... ditch
the toys, and just maybe? The rest is history. After 8 years of ownership, I wouldn't change a thing. Don't
totally give up just because you have to take a sabbatical. There was a time as young man that I was on a mission to
own an airplane. There was a time in my life that I just knew it would never happen and I'd wasted a fortune on
lessons. 15 years later and I'm in a club putting those lessons to use and a year later I own my airplane. Since
then it has taken the wife and I from the middle of the USA to the Grand Canyon, Oshkosh, Canada, and countless trips
to see friends and relatives and to tens if not hundreds of high school soccer and football games around the state.

Back to the thread: Similarly to others who've have mentioned relatives or people they know... I had an Uncle who
was a civilian military flight instructor during WWII. Then he was a corporate pilot, flying Beech 18's for J.I.
Case (tractor) company. Several years ago there was a reunion and he flew his own airplane to the airfield were he
once taught fighter pilots. His ex-students could not believe he was still flying. IIRC, he was 88 years young at
the time. He kept on instructing into his mid 90's, once receiving the Oklahoma flight instructor of the year award.
He finally quit flying, and sold his airplane when he was 96. At one point he had been honored as the oldest flying
pilot in the U.S. by the FAA and AOPA. He moved into an assisted living center while still in relatively good
health. One day Dad and I stopped by to visit. He was a bit depressed as many elderly in his situation seem to be.
An elderly lady walked into his apartment with her son. They were considering moving her into the same facility.
She noticed a framed picture setting on an end table. It was of him as a young man standing beside the Beech he used
to fly. The lady asked, "What is that"? Assuming she was point to the elegantly hand crafted doily the picture was
setting on, he said with a touch of sadness, "Oh my wife crocheted that years ago before she passed away". The lady
said, "No, that's beautiful, but I mean the picture". Uncle raised his eyebrows, and cautiously began telling of his
flying career. The elegant old woman said she'd been a ferry pilot in world war II. Both their eyes lit up, the
scrap books came out, and they were transported back in time...as was I. It was the most amazing thing I'd ever
witnessed as they told flying story after story. He passed away at 99 years young. He never lost a student in an
airplane crash during 70 years of flying. My only regret is that he lived 130 miles from me and I never got to fly
with him.

Joe Schneider
N8437R



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"greenwavepilot" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well, I just hit 30 and realized that I am too old to finish my PPL,
and will never try again. Since the arrival of my kid ...

Hell, it isn't even CLOSE to being too late! I had the same issues as you
and waited until my "baby" had her first full-time job before taking my first
lesson. What made it all even harder was my daughter; she started taking
lessons at 12 and obtained her ASEL and PPG while I stood on the ground and paid
the bills. The things we do for our kids!

Vaughn

"JJS" jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net wrote in message
...

.. . . It was the most amazing thing I'd ever
witnessed as they told flying story after story. He passed away at 99
years young. He never lost a student in an airplane crash during 70 years
of flying. My only regret is that he lived 130 miles from me and I never
got to fly with him.

Joe Schneider
N8437R

Great story, Joe. Inspiring!

Rich S.

On Wed, 24 May 2006 09:02:20 -0700, "R.W. Behan"
wrote:

There can be no better source of advice than this group for my question: am
I too old to take up flying--and building an airplane?

As far as learning to fly age should play no role unless you are too
young to solo. :-))

The only requirement is that you are in good health both physically
and mentally and can pass the physical, or at least in good enough
health to be safe if going for the sport class license.

However that clarification at the end... Building an airplane does
cast doubts on the state of your mental health.


Full disclosure. As a young man in the Korean War I was an aviation
machinist's mate in the Navy. As a forestry student in the late '50's I was
a smokejumper, so I have quite a bit of experience in the ultimate maneuver:
abandoning an airplane in flight. As a forester in Southeast Alaska, I had
many hours of time flying with a bush pilot, as a passenger. Lots of
airplanes in my background, but I'm now 73.

I find the Zenith STOL's irresistible. The 701, the 2-seater, can be flown
with a 10-hour sport license, so at my age--and limited time out there
ahead--it might make sense to focus on that airplane. But I'd really prefer
the 801, the 4-place plane. It would take longer to get the necessary
private pilot's license--40 hours of flying time instead of 10--but I see
that as a huge advantage: nothing beats experience. And flight training and
airplane building could proceed simultaneously, couldn't they?

You'd probably have the license long before the plane is ready to fly.

I've enjoyed a great deal following the discussions on this board, and I've
learned a lot here. Maybe it has been the stimulus for my cockamamie dream.

If you can still dream you aren't too old to fly.
All too often people leave their dreams when they leave their youth
behind. I find that most pilots seem to have brought their dreams with
them into adulthood. OTOH I think quite a few brought their child
hoods with them.:-))

There are some on this group, at least at times and I think they still
lurk, that flew air show aerobatics well past your age.

As far as building you might also look into quick build kits and
builder assist programs to get the plane in the air a lot sooner, but
those both add quite a bit to the cost of the airplane.

There are about 5 or 6 planes I'd love to build, but the odds are I'll
never get the G-III finished at the rate I've been going.

Good Luck,

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Your knowledgeable comments will be most appreciated, and thanks a million.

Dick Behan

On 26 May 2006 20:35:40 -0700, "greenwavepilot"
wrote:

Well, I just hit 30 and realized that I am too old to finish my PPL,
and will never try again. Since the arrival of my kid I had to face the
hard cold fact that I could buy lessons and avgas or diapers and baby
food and daycare. So all my PPL stuff is currently on Ebay.

So...
I don't look up anymore when I hear that piston single.
I don't want to ever get near an aircraft again.
It makes me sick even thinking about it.

Now I just gotta wean myself from accessing these forums.

I don't see any reason above to give up on flying. Many of us have
gone through the same thing. We may have put flying on hold a few
years, or even decades, but we never gave up on it.

I started flying way back in 63. Then a wife, two kids and a new home
in the country came along. I sold my share in the flying club and with
only a couple of exceptions never got back into an airplane except for
flying commercial until 87. The kids were now grown and gone, I had a
new wife (who is still putting up with me after 22 years), a much
smaller home, and to top it off went back to college full time to earn
a Bachelors degree in CS.

So, although I gave up flying for 24 years I_never_gave_up_on_flying.
Since 87 I earned my PPL and instrument rating. I've also flown over
1300 hours as PIC, was partner in Cherokee 180 and now have my own
plane albeit a plane that will turn 46 this Fall. The airworthy
certificate shows 9/11/59.

Think positive. Many of these things take time, but never give up on
your dreams.

Good Luck,

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Adam Aulick wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote:
If you're looking at the 701, you might also want to take a look at the
Savannah:
http://www.skykits.com/

Apparently the Savannah is a direct copy of the 701:
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo-copies.html#Ultraflight

Is it legal in the US, to sell kits built from somebody else's
(copyrighted) plans, without permission? On reflection, I can't think
of a reason why it wouldn't be, but I can see where the original
designer would be irritated.


No. The kit is a copy, in a tangible medium, of the
original.

Small changes may be sufficient to eliminate infringement--
at least that is the case for furniture or cookbook recipes.

For a better discussion you can post your question to
misc.legal.moderated.

--

FF

Morgans wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Morgans" wrote:
"Adam Aulick" wrote

Apparently the Savannah is a direct copy of the 701:
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo-copies.html#Ultraflight

Yep, and the 701 folks raise a lot of questions about the safety of said
copy. Go to Zenith.com and Poke around, before you make up your mind.

Try http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo-copies.html

Zenith seems to want to have it both ways: claims it's an exact copy, yet
raises questions about its safety. If it were "just" a copy, Zenith would
be in the position of questioning the safety of its own design.

Granted, there is a lot of reading there, but not so, according to them.

There was one incident that I remember off the top of my head, but Z
increased it's gross, by re-engineering the spar, or something, a bit
beefier, and within a few days, S said their gross weight was up to match
it, with no noticeable change in the affected parts. There were more
examples, I think.


Near the bottom of this page:

http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7...ml#Ultraflight

(In 2001, the design gross weight of the STOL CH 701 was increased
to 1,100 lbs. from 950 lbs. by redesigning the wing spar and numerous
other structural components. Nearly overnight, copies were subsequently

marketed with a gross weight increase to 1,100 lbs. - with no apparent
design or structural changes to justify the gross weight increase).

Do you really think Z would be stupid enough to say S was unsafe, if there
were no differences to point at?

And higher up on that page:

In flight testing the Savannah, Gratton notes that the take-off and
landing performance of the aircraft is 500 ft. and 460 ft.
respectively,
with climb at 600 fpm and cruise at 80 mph. These performance
figures are notably inferior than those for the STOL CH 701 - an
indication that the Savannah's modifications adversely affect
performance, not to mention flight characteristics.

--

FF

My personal belief is that if you really want to fly, you will find a
way to afford it. Cutting out those $3.50 Starbuck's Coffees (5 days a
week) will save you $70 a month. That should be enough to rent a Cessna
150 for an hour. Cutting back on a few other things should free up some
more money. Realistically, you should aim for at least one hour a week
of flight instruction. That's about right, but don't get discouraged if
you only end up with an hour or two a month. KEEP PLUGGING AWAY! Don't
wait until reitrement to learn to fly. Here is why I say that...my dad
started to fly at age 35 with a friend in the friend's Cessna 140. Dad
flew with him until the guy sold his 140. Dad was faced with ending his
lessons or buying a 140. He bought a 140 (not the instructors plane)
and continued. That was back in 1975. He still owns it. Dad is now
68. A couple of weeks ago they found a tumor on his pancreas. This
past Thursday he had surgery and lost part of his pancreas and had his
intestinal plumbing shortened and re-routed. It was cancerous.
Prognosis is good, but now he is diabetic and our family doctor (and
also our Aviation Medical Examiner) says his flying days are over. Dad
has had many good years of flying, but is pretty sad about the "no more
flying" bit. The good news is that my brother and I both caught the
flying bug. We are both pilots, so we can ferry dad around (riding is
better than no flying at all!!) As Nike says...JUST DO IT! You will
NEVER regret the decision to fly...

Scott


Roger wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2006 09:02:20 -0700, "R.W. Behan"
wrote:


There can be no better source of advice than this group for my question: am
I too old to take up flying--and building an airplane?


As far as learning to fly age should play no role unless you are too
young to solo. :-))

The only requirement is that you are in good health both physically
and mentally and can pass the physical, or at least in good enough
health to be safe if going for the sport class license.

However that clarification at the end... Building an airplane does
cast doubts on the state of your mental health.


Full disclosure. As a young man in the Korean War I was an aviation
machinist's mate in the Navy. As a forestry student in the late '50's I was
a smokejumper, so I have quite a bit of experience in the ultimate maneuver:
abandoning an airplane in flight. As a forester in Southeast Alaska, I had
many hours of time flying with a bush pilot, as a passenger. Lots of
airplanes in my background, but I'm now 73.

I find the Zenith STOL's irresistible. The 701, the 2-seater, can be flown
with a 10-hour sport license, so at my age--and limited time out there
ahead--it might make sense to focus on that airplane. But I'd really prefer
the 801, the 4-place plane. It would take longer to get the necessary
private pilot's license--40 hours of flying time instead of 10--but I see
that as a huge advantage: nothing beats experience. And flight training and
airplane building could proceed simultaneously, couldn't they?


You'd probably have the license long before the plane is ready to fly.

I've enjoyed a great deal following the discussions on this board, and I've
learned a lot here. Maybe it has been the stimulus for my cockamamie dream.


If you can still dream you aren't too old to fly.
All too often people leave their dreams when they leave their youth
behind. I find that most pilots seem to have brought their dreams with
them into adulthood. OTOH I think quite a few brought their child
hoods with them.:-))

There are some on this group, at least at times and I think they still
lurk, that flew air show aerobatics well past your age.

As far as building you might also look into quick build kits and
builder assist programs to get the plane in the air a lot sooner, but
those both add quite a bit to the cost of the airplane.

There are about 5 or 6 planes I'd love to build, but the odds are I'll
never get the G-III finished at the rate I've been going.

Good Luck,

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Your knowledgeable comments will be most appreciated, and thanks a million.

Dick Behan

ONLY 46 years old? My first plane was built in 1947. Dad's 140 was
built in '47 and it still flies! (Although, from my other post about
dad's pancreas cancer, he will not be PIC of it anymore, but it WILL
continue to fly with dad as passenger!!)

Scott
N0EDV to all my ham friends



Roger wrote:

On 26 May 2006 20:35:40 -0700, "greenwavepilot"
wrote:


Well, I just hit 30 and realized that I am too old to finish my PPL,
and will never try again. Since the arrival of my kid I had to face the
hard cold fact that I could buy lessons and avgas or diapers and baby
food and daycare. So all my PPL stuff is currently on Ebay.

So...
I don't look up anymore when I hear that piston single.
I don't want to ever get near an aircraft again.
It makes me sick even thinking about it.

Now I just gotta wean myself from accessing these forums.


I don't see any reason above to give up on flying. Many of us have
gone through the same thing. We may have put flying on hold a few
years, or even decades, but we never gave up on it.

I started flying way back in 63. Then a wife, two kids and a new home
in the country came along. I sold my share in the flying club and with
only a couple of exceptions never got back into an airplane except for
flying commercial until 87. The kids were now grown and gone, I had a
new wife (who is still putting up with me after 22 years), a much
smaller home, and to top it off went back to college full time to earn
a Bachelors degree in CS.

So, although I gave up flying for 24 years I_never_gave_up_on_flying.
Since 87 I earned my PPL and instrument rating. I've also flown over
1300 hours as PIC, was partner in Cherokee 180 and now have my own
plane albeit a plane that will turn 46 this Fall. The airworthy
certificate shows 9/11/59.

Think positive. Many of these things take time, but never give up on
your dreams.

Good Luck,

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Scott" wrote

Prognosis is good, but now he is diabetic and our family doctor (and also
our Aviation Medical Examiner) says his flying days are over. Dad has had
many good years of flying, but is pretty sad about the "no more flying"
bit.

If he recovers to the point that his mind and reactions are still good,
there is always sport pilot. As long as he does not try to go get another
medical, he is still qualified to fly as PIC for sport pilot, if he can say
that for that day, he is OK.

Something to think about.
--
Jim in NC