piper cargo twin crashes in eastern washington

Can I go?

steve wrote:

I was planning to fly to Bozeman, MT next weekend for fishing,

"gatt" wrote

I would think that this might be a potential problem given a recent
checkout
in a complex airplane. (For perspective, I have about 30 hours in an
PA-28R
and 240 total hours which have been spaced over fifteen years, so we have
a
bit in common.) But, you've got an extra pilot with you which seems
reasonably sufficient.

As long as he guards against the "I thought you did it" trap, or the "you
were the PIC, so I didn't want to question your decision" trap.

Double check each other, completely, all of the way down the checklist,
right?
--
Jim in NC

Sure come on over the mounatins a little farther towards Billings. I
know of a local wrecked Maule whose parts you can peruse. Get here
before the farmers do.



Maule Driver wrote:

Can I go?

steve wrote:


I was planning to fly to Bozeman, MT next weekend for fishing,

In article ,
Newps wrote:

Sure come on over the mounatins a little farther towards Billings. I
know of a local wrecked Maule whose parts you can peruse. Get here
before the farmers do.

Is that the one that happened at the flyin last weekend?
There is no preliminary report in on the FAA website.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
As reluctant as I am to assign blame before all the facts are in, it does
appear that Eric Beard was "ducking under" on a nonprecision approach,
making it hard to point fingers in any other direction. The Easton crash
sounds to me (again, without any factual knowledge), like a mechanical.

I agree that the events leading up to the crash suggest a mechanical problem
(especially with the pilot radioing about what sounded like some sort of
mechanical issue). But even if they determine what mechanical problem
existed, if any, it doesn't explain how the pilot failed to make a
successful emergency landing.

While forested, it's not as though there are no clear areas in which to
land. Even the area shown in the news footage appears reasonably landable
with plenty of space between the trees and open terrain generally. Given
the terrain, if the airplane had struck a tree during the landing roll, or
had come to rest against a tree or something like that, I think it would
have been understandable. But one witness they interviewed for the news
said that he saw the airplane descending upside down, meaning that it had
struck a tree (losing the wing) prior to landing.

The question of why *that* happened will be much harder to answer, assuming
it's answered at all.

Pete

john smith wrote:

In article ,
Newps wrote:


Sure come on over the mounatins a little farther towards Billings. I
know of a local wrecked Maule whose parts you can peruse. Get here
before the farmers do.


Is that the one that happened at the flyin last weekend?
There is no preliminary report in on the FAA website.

Is that right? Funny how that works.

In article ,
Newps wrote:

john smith wrote:

In article ,
Newps wrote:


Sure come on over the mounatins a little farther towards Billings. I
know of a local wrecked Maule whose parts you can peruse. Get here
before the farmers do.


Is that the one that happened at the flyin last weekend?
There is no preliminary report in on the FAA website.

Is that right? Funny how that works.

You forgot to add... :-))

john smith wrote:
In article ,
Newps wrote:


john smith wrote:


In article ,
Newps wrote:



Sure come on over the mounatins a little farther towards Billings. I
know of a local wrecked Maule whose parts you can peruse. Get here
before the farmers do.


Is that the one that happened at the flyin last weekend?
There is no preliminary report in on the FAA website.

Is that right? Funny how that works.


You forgot to add... :-))

No I didn't.

It is a 2200HP Hershey bare wing and straight tail.

PA28/R-200

Thanks to everyone for your input and recommendations. The other pilot and I
will definitely make sure we both go through all checklists and CCGUMPS
independently to ensure we don't have to point broken fingers at each other
later.

The go/no go is now based on weather outlook. I am just starting to learn
IFR and will cancel our flight if there is even a hint of rain, clouds, or
thunderstorms during the 4 day trip on the entire route. I'll have plenty of
opportunities for future trips and already have tickets on Alaska Airlines
in case we do cancel.

Better to be safe than sorry.


Again, my deepest sympathies to those of you who knew the pilot in eastern
Washington.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"steve" wrote:

It is a piper Arrow with retractable gear and constant speed prop.

What year model is it?
Is it a 180 or 200 HP model?
Hershey bar or taper wing?
T-tail or straight tail?

Download the Piper Cherokee and Arrow document
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/highlights.html

This is a good review document for the PA28 series

I have 4 hours as training for my complex rating, and will have an
additional 4-6 hours on Monday because I will be taking it out to
practice
most of the day.

Go to http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/
Source of lots of good refresher material

My total time flying is 120 hours, 100 of which happened 20 years ago.
The
good thing is that I am much more thorough and aware of my own mortality
than I was when younger.

Essentially, you are starting over and can be considered a low-time
pilot. Although you have over 100 hours, which is probably the minimum
required by insurance for checkout, all your experience is very recent,
by your own admission. The Arrow will take you more than 10 hours be
really comfortable with.
It has a high sink rate with the power off. The main landing gear is
six-inches shorter than a fixed gear Archer, meaning that you have to
manage your energy on short final to make a smooth arrival. You do not
want to drop it in.
There are two ways to look at your proposed trip.
One, you have to try new things to learn. There is nothing like flying
off to a new destination in a new/different airplane.
Two, what you don't know can kill you. Get some more time in the
airplane, then take your wife.
The checkout requirement for the Turbo Arrow IV belonging to the club I
am a member of has the following checkout minimum:

150+ hours total, 25+ hours retract, 10+ hours (or 5+ dual) make and
model and complex endorsement required.

Also, the other person going with me has his complex rating also, so we
will
have two pilots in the plane.

That can be both good and bad.
How much time in the Arrow does the other pilot have?
How much total complex time does the other pilot have?
Two pilots, no cockpit resource management training, right?
Prior to flight, be sure to define each persons roles and
responsibilities during the flight.

The other issue is that Interstate 90, with two full lanes in each direction
was right next to the Easton airstrip, and parallel to his direction of
flight.

That would have given him a nearly unlimited landing strip, albeit with cars
scampering out of the way.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
As reluctant as I am to assign blame before all the facts are in, it does
appear that Eric Beard was "ducking under" on a nonprecision approach,
making it hard to point fingers in any other direction. The Easton crash
sounds to me (again, without any factual knowledge), like a mechanical.

I agree that the events leading up to the crash suggest a mechanical
problem (especially with the pilot radioing about what sounded like some
sort of mechanical issue). But even if they determine what mechanical
problem existed, if any, it doesn't explain how the pilot failed to make a
successful emergency landing.

While forested, it's not as though there are no clear areas in which to
land. Even the area shown in the news footage appears reasonably landable
with plenty of space between the trees and open terrain generally. Given
the terrain, if the airplane had struck a tree during the landing roll, or
had come to rest against a tree or something like that, I think it would
have been understandable. But one witness they interviewed for the news
said that he saw the airplane descending upside down, meaning that it had
struck a tree (losing the wing) prior to landing.

The question of why *that* happened will be much harder to answer,
assuming it's answered at all.

Pete