most anti-aviation city in the nation

greatav8or wrote:

components. i can't help but think that it all revolves around
property value and city taxes collected for that property value. they
want every last penny they can squeeze outta ya so they can pay for
their over zealous city expansion and national football franchise and
stadium upkeep, not to mention interstate highway expansion, while the
intercity traffic becomes longer daily grid-lock.

Yeah and tryin to take our Naval Air Station away from us!
John in Virginia Baach (Oceana NA)
;-)

"just jokin!"

Wouldn't the appropriate header in a post mentioning Bush be "POS"?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:04:52 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Alan Petrillo" wrote

We haven't been living in America since GWB was appointed President.

Please add "POL: to the subject line of your post, when you throw in crap
like that.

Oh, by the way, I'm "SURE" that GWB really gives a **** what someone is
doing in podunk county, building an airplane. That is local politics,
plain and simple.

Don W wrote:
I wonder what the city/county concerns that are leading to the
regulations are....

I wholeheartedly agree that our city/county governments are passing
ordinances that interfere with a persons right to "pursuit of happiness"
all the time.

Y'know, in most places it takes two or three readings to pass an
ordinance, and the idea's supposed to be (folks on the council think
they're doing this) to inform the public and get their input.

It's harder than they think to follow the workings of local government,
but a good pro-active airport manager will go to ALL the meetings,
county and city and township or whatever governing boards control stuff,
and will make it a point to be on good terms with every member and
constantly point out the economic and social value of the airport.

I've known a good airport manager or two, and they consider that part of
their job, just like making sure realtors tell clients that their house
happens to be located next to an airport, and passing on stuff like
zoning plans and potential ordinances to the pilots and owners at the
airport so they can get involved themselves.

If your airport doesn't have a manager that good, can one be found?

duval county has an abundance of airports. all the hangers are rented
with long waiting lists to anyone who would like to get one. after
getting on the list, we will probably die, while waiting for the guy
with the hanger to die. the airport managers have a cash cow because
of the port authority controlling any building of new hangers(u can
build a hanger but the airport will own it), adding fly-in communities
or anything else that would allow the aviation community to to thrive
in this town. so, why should the airport managers do anything extra,
like attending city council meetings, as long as they have all the
business they can handle.(by default) the sad part of all this is the
fact that naval aviation was responsible for a good part of what this
city is today. my my, how quickly we forget where our roots are. i
really hate people who move out by the airport because land is cheap an
then start complaining about all the freaking airplane noise, then have
the city shut down the airport. oh! wait, that was the people that
went west because there was nothing but indians out there, then they
killed all the indians to make more room. maybe this is just a pattern
that humans have to keep repeating. u think?


Stella Starr wrote:
Don W wrote:
I wonder what the city/county concerns that are leading to the
regulations are....

I wholeheartedly agree that our city/county governments are passing
ordinances that interfere with a persons right to "pursuit of happiness"
all the time.

Y'know, in most places it takes two or three readings to pass an
ordinance, and the idea's supposed to be (folks on the council think
they're doing this) to inform the public and get their input.

It's harder than they think to follow the workings of local government,
but a good pro-active airport manager will go to ALL the meetings,
county and city and township or whatever governing boards control stuff,
and will make it a point to be on good terms with every member and
constantly point out the economic and social value of the airport.

I've known a good airport manager or two, and they consider that part of
their job, just like making sure realtors tell clients that their house
happens to be located next to an airport, and passing on stuff like
zoning plans and potential ordinances to the pilots and owners at the
airport so they can get involved themselves.

If your airport doesn't have a manager that good, can one be found?

("Jim Hall" wrote)
Wouldn't the appropriate header in a post mentioning Bush be "POS"?


"POS" ...?

You forgot Tango Uniform.


Montblack

"Jim Hall" wrote
....
Wouldn't the appropriate header in a post mentioning Bush be "POS"?

Yep, and I even thought about it, and forgot, before I hit send. This
thread has mostly kept all but local politics out of it, but really,
politics is at the whole root of the problem here.

There will always be gray area.
--
Jim in NC

Commie *******s!

The guy who came up with that ordinance out to be imprisoned, just like
Daly of Chicago ought to be...



greatav8or wrote:

some disturbing news was revealed at the last eaa mtg, when one of the
members got up and passed out a copy of the latest city ordinance,
amending what a residential dweller could do and have at their
dwelling. enclosed is a copy of the admendment. the interesting point
is how specifically the homebuilder was targeted, without ever being
mentioned in the doucument. the part about the airboats was just an
oportunity for the council members who have a problem with airboaters,
to jump on board for a free ride. the disturbing issue is how the
whole thing was put togeather with the most obscure notification
imaginable. it was published in a local financial paper that has
minimal circulation in the mainstream populace(the name escapes me at
the moment.), however, it qualifies as public notice media.

now! the ripple effect. joe flyer has been working on his $30k plus
kit for the last however many years and now finds out he has a garage
of illegal junk, that he can never finish, legally, due to the stroke
of a pen. if u read it closely, u realize it includes model planes
also.
so now all the hobby shops can no longer sell model air plane kits to
residents of the city(which btw, includes all the county, since the
city limits is the county line.(makes the police and sheriff depts, one
and the same.) the individual responsible for causing this piece of
trash ordinance, is an eaa chapt member who lives next door to a
busy-body that can't stand to see him working on his project at his
home. due to here relentless resentment of his activites next door, he
has paid numerous fines and court costs for not removing his project
from his property. this new amendment is the final straw to shut him
down. it would be curious to know as to how she found a receptive ear
on the city council, to pen and pass such discriminatory legislation.
fore warned is fore armed. don't let this happen in your town.

Introduced by Council Member Lake Ray and amended on the floor of the
council:

Ordinance 2006-543-e
An ordinance amending chapter 656 (zoning
code), part 4 (supplementary regulations),
subpart b (miscellaneous regulations),
ordinance code, establishing section 656.420
(parking, storage, construction and repair of flying craft
and airboats in residential districts, and
amending part 16 (definitions), section
656.1601 (definitions, ordinance code to
include a definition for flying craft;
providing an effective date.

Whereas, parking or storing flying craft and airboats in unenclosed
spaces, including a carport, is not an operation in keeping with the
character of a residential neighborhood, and
Whereas, repairing, testing, operating, constructing, modifying or
altering flying aircraft and airboats anywhere on a residential lot is
not an operation in keeping with the character of a residential
neighborhood, now thereof.

Be it ordained by the council of the city of Jacksonville:
Section 1. Creation of section 656.420, chapter 656 ordinance code.
Chapter 656 (zoning code), part 4 (supplementary regulations),
ordinance code is amended to create a new section 656.420 (parking,
storage, repair and operation flying craft and airboats in residential
districts) to read as follows:

Chapter 656 zoning code

***
Part 4. Supplementary Regulations

Subpart A. Performance standards and development criteria

***
Sec. 656.420. Parking, storage, repair and operation of flying craft
and airboats in residential districts.

(a) Flying craft and airboats shall not be parked or stored, other
than in completely enclosed buildings, on residentially-zoned property,
including residential PUD districts and properties with a residential
component in a mixed-use PUD district. Airboats may however, be parked
or stored in the water adjacent to, on docking facilities of, or in a
yard fronting a navigable waterbody of, a residential PUD district and
a property in the residential portion of a mixed-use PUD district.

(b) Repairing, testing, operation, constructing, modifying or altering
flying craft and airboats shall be prohibited in all residential
districts, including residential PUD districts and properties with a
residential component in a mixed-use PUD district.

Section 2. Amendment to section 656.1601, Ordinance Code.

Section 656.1601, Ordinance Code, is hereby amended as follows:

Chapter 656 zoning code

***

Part 16. definitions

Sec.656.1601. Definitions.

***

(this does not apply to the aviation issue)Floor area means, except as
specifically indicated in relation to particular districts and uses,
the sum of the gross horizontal area of several floors of a building
measured from the exterior faces of the exterior wall or from the
centerline of the walls separating two buildings, excluding attic areas
with a headroom of less than seven feet, unenclosed stairs or fire
escapes, elevator structures, cooling towers, areas devoted to air
conditioning, ventilating, heating or other building machinery and
equipment, parking structures and basements space where the ceiling is
not more than an average of 48 inches above the general finished and
grade level of the adjacent portion of the lot.

(this does apply to the aviation issue)Flying craft means any vehicle
designed for navigation in the air or through outer space, including
but not limited to airplanes, helicopters and hot air balloons.

***

Section 3. Effective Date. This ordinance shall become effective upon
signature by the mayor or upon becoming effective without the mayor's
signature.
Form approved:


/a/ Dylan T. Reingold

Office of General Counsel
Legislation Prepared by: Dylan Reingold

Tha may not work either. When I lived in SW Wisconsin, I kept my plane
at Viroqua, WI. They had a policy that no aircraft could be worked on
or (or built) in the hangar...



Don W wrote:

Sounds like someone needs to talk with their city council to figure out
what the real issues are and try to reach a compromise such that
everyone can be happy. Getting ****ed off and ignoring your neighbor's
concerns doesn't work well.

If they were working in their closed garage and not making a lot of
noise, then no one would even know what they were doing, and it would
not be a concern.

Now their only choice is to rent a hangar with some buddies, or move to
another town.

Like they say: "you can't fight city hall"

Don W.

greatav8or wrote:

some disturbing news was revealed at the last eaa mtg, when one of the
members got up and passed out a copy of the latest city ordinance,
amending what a residential dweller could do and have at their
dwelling. enclosed is a copy of the admendment. the interesting point
is how specifically the homebuilder was targeted, without ever being
mentioned in the doucument. the part about the airboats was just an
oportunity for the council members who have a problem with airboaters,
to jump on board for a free ride. the disturbing issue is how the
whole thing was put togeather with the most obscure notification
imaginable. it was published in a local financial paper that has
minimal circulation in the mainstream populace(the name escapes me at
the moment.), however, it qualifies as public notice media.

now! the ripple effect. joe flyer has been working on his $30k plus
kit for the last however many years and now finds out he has a garage
of illegal junk, that he can never finish, legally, due to the stroke
of a pen. if u read it closely, u realize it includes model planes
also.
so now all the hobby shops can no longer sell model air plane kits to
residents of the city(which btw, includes all the county, since the
city limits is the county line.(makes the police and sheriff depts, one
and the same.) the individual responsible for causing this piece of
trash ordinance, is an eaa chapt member who lives next door to a
busy-body that can't stand to see him working on his project at his
home. due to here relentless resentment of his activites next door, he
has paid numerous fines and court costs for not removing his project
from his property. this new amendment is the final straw to shut him
down. it would be curious to know as to how she found a receptive ear
on the city council, to pen and pass such discriminatory legislation.
fore warned is fore armed. don't let this happen in your town.

Introduced by Council Member Lake Ray and amended on the floor of the
council:

Ordinance 2006-543-e
An ordinance amending chapter 656 (zoning
code), part 4 (supplementary regulations),
subpart b (miscellaneous regulations),
ordinance code, establishing section 656.420
(parking, storage, construction and repair of flying craft
and airboats in residential districts, and
amending part 16 (definitions), section
656.1601 (definitions, ordinance code to
include a definition for flying craft;
providing an effective date.

Whereas, parking or storing flying craft and airboats in unenclosed
spaces, including a carport, is not an operation in keeping with the
character of a residential neighborhood, and
Whereas, repairing, testing, operating, constructing, modifying or
altering flying aircraft and airboats anywhere on a residential lot is
not an operation in keeping with the character of a residential
neighborhood, now thereof.

Be it ordained by the council of the city of Jacksonville:
Section 1. Creation of section 656.420, chapter 656 ordinance code.
Chapter 656 (zoning code), part 4 (supplementary regulations),
ordinance code is amended to create a new section 656.420 (parking,
storage, repair and operation flying craft and airboats in residential
districts) to read as follows:

Chapter 656 zoning code

***
Part 4. Supplementary Regulations

Subpart A. Performance standards and development criteria

***
Sec. 656.420. Parking, storage, repair and operation of flying
craft
and airboats in residential districts.

(a) Flying craft and airboats shall not be parked or stored, other
than in completely enclosed buildings, on residentially-zoned property,
including residential PUD districts and properties with a residential
component in a mixed-use PUD district. Airboats may however, be parked
or stored in the water adjacent to, on docking facilities of, or in a
yard fronting a navigable waterbody of, a residential PUD district and
a property in the residential portion of a mixed-use PUD district.

(b) Repairing, testing, operation, constructing, modifying or
altering
flying craft and airboats shall be prohibited in all residential
districts, including residential PUD districts and properties with a
residential component in a mixed-use PUD district.

Section 2. Amendment to section 656.1601, Ordinance Code.

Section 656.1601, Ordinance Code, is hereby amended as follows:

Chapter 656 zoning code

***

Part 16. definitions

Sec.656.1601. Definitions.

***

(this does not apply to the aviation issue)Floor area means,
except as
specifically indicated in relation to particular districts and uses,
the sum of the gross horizontal area of several floors of a building
measured from the exterior faces of the exterior wall or from the
centerline of the walls separating two buildings, excluding attic areas
with a headroom of less than seven feet, unenclosed stairs or fire
escapes, elevator structures, cooling towers, areas devoted to air
conditioning, ventilating, heating or other building machinery and
equipment, parking structures and basements space where the ceiling is
not more than an average of 48 inches above the general finished and
grade level of the adjacent portion of the lot.

(this does apply to the aviation issue)Flying craft means any vehicle
designed for navigation in the air or through outer space, including
but not limited to airplanes, helicopters and hot air balloons.

***

Section 3. Effective Date. This ordinance shall become
effective upon
signature by the mayor or upon becoming effective without the mayor's
signature.
Form approved:


/a/ Dylan T. Reingold

Office of General Counsel
Legislation Prepared by: Dylan Reingold

That may be true, but why only target airboats and airplanes (is the
"testing" the issue because of rotating propellor blades)? What about
guys building hotrods and leaving them out in the driveway, half assembled?



Morgans wrote:

"Don W" wrote in message
. net...

Sounds like someone needs to talk with their city
council to figure out what the real issues are and
try to reach a compromise such that everyone can
be happy. Getting ****ed off and ignoring your
neighbor's concerns doesn't work well.

If they were working in their closed garage and
not making a lot of noise, then no one would even
know what they were doing, and it would not be a
concern.


I read it as only prohibiting it, if the craft was an unenclosed garage.
No?

"Scott" wrote
Tha may not work either. When I lived in SW Wisconsin, I kept my plane
at Viroqua, WI. They had a policy that no aircraft could be worked on
or (or built) in the hangar...

That would be because of insurance. If the hangar does not have fire
suppression equipment (sprinklers) it is within their right to prevent it.
--
Jim in NC