New to all this - need some advice and answers

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
news
Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to rent.
Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go out to
the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.

Sort of like finding the exact woman and marrying her.

It is unfortunate perhaps, but it is an inescapable fact that I spend far
more time in bed than I spend flying. Marriage is the best deal I ever made.

Vaughn

"Rom" wrote in message
ups.com...
OK, this is going to be a rather long post since I have quite a few
question and they are all over the bloody map here. I know most of you
have gone through this sometime and while I do expect I'm not
necessarily going to hear what I want, I'll definitely hear mostly what
I need..
snip
Also, did anyone have issues with their life-insurance? I believe mine
can be cancelled if I do "extreme" sports (flying is listed here, as is
parachuting)... Funny thing is that this is done regardless of whether
I die flying (or practicing these sports) or not. So, on that side, is
there a pilot-friendly or pilot group insurance available to pilots?


- SOME life insurance companies charge higher rates (or refuse) to insure
pilots.
- Some insurance companies ASK it you are a pilot (or are in training), some
do not care.
- Some insurance companies do(or can) NOT raise rates for EXISTING policy
holders who take up piloting during the term of a policy. They may (or not,
at their option) raise the rates on additional coverage purchased after your
initial policy.
- You MAY be advised to purchase all or most of your expected life insurance
needs BEFORE you begin pilot training.
- YMMV
- Talk to several agents and brokers and do NOT falsify any applications.

Like most maxims and ROTs, YMMV. Best way to afford a/c ownership can
be a commiting to the right partner. Two incomes go furthur than one.

RST Engineering wrote:
Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to
rent. Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go
out to the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.

Sort of like finding the exact woman and marrying her.

Jim




Write this down on the back of your hand in indelible ink where you
will see it several times every hour: "Simple aviation rule of thumb: Any
form of ownership is almost always more expensive than any form of
renting."

If you want to know the cost of owning, check out the cost of renting.
Owning is seldom less expensive than renting, so consider the rent
figure to be a floor. The more hours you fly a plane the less per hour
it costs. Maintenace is hard to predict.

If you are just starting out, you are way better off to rent than own.
It is complicated enough to rent and learn without having to deal with
all the hassles of ownership too.

Maule Driver wrote:
Like most maxims and ROTs, YMMV. Best way to afford a/c ownership can
be a commiting to the right partner. Two incomes go furthur than one.

Everything is 1/2 price! G

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:45:20 -0700, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

Famous maxim: If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is far cheaper to
rent. Having said that, there is absolutely nothing like knowing you can go
out to the airport to YOUR airplane and fly away at will.

Except that you're waiting for a new windshield, or you've called all
the wrecking yards for a part nobody has and now you need somebody to
fabricate it for you, or there's a family of bluebirds in a nest in
the cowling any your SO thinks you should wait until the eggs hatch
and the chicks fledge before you clean it out, because, "Aren't they
flyers too?"

Don

Good advise... I rented for 3 years before buying and learned a lot in
the process.

Now I know 2 things for sure.... Renting is far cheaper than owning....
Owning is far more satifying than renting... YMMV

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP


Doug wrote:
If you want to know the cost of owning, check out the cost of renting.
Owning is seldom less expensive than renting, so consider the rent
figure to be a floor. The more hours you fly a plane the less per hour
it costs. Maintenace is hard to predict.

If you are just starting out, you are way better off to rent than own.
It is complicated enough to rent and learn without having to deal with
all the hassles of ownership too.

"Private" wrote in message
news:4xQwg.222796$Mn5.91929@pd7tw3no...

"Rom" wrote in message
ups.com...
OK, this is going to be a rather long post since I have quite a few
question and they are all over the bloody map here. I know most of you
have gone through this sometime and while I do expect I'm not
necessarily going to hear what I want, I'll definitely hear mostly what
I need..
snip
Also, did anyone have issues with their life-insurance? I believe mine
can be cancelled if I do "extreme" sports (flying is listed here, as is
parachuting)... Funny thing is that this is done regardless of whether
I die flying (or practicing these sports) or not. So, on that side, is
there a pilot-friendly or pilot group insurance available to pilots?


- SOME life insurance companies charge higher rates (or refuse) to insure
pilots.
- Some insurance companies ASK it you are a pilot (or are in training),
some do not care.
- Some insurance companies do(or can) NOT raise rates for EXISTING policy
holders who take up piloting during the term of a policy. They may (or
not, at their option) raise the rates on additional coverage purchased
after your initial policy.
- You MAY be advised to purchase all or most of your expected life
insurance needs BEFORE you begin pilot training.
- YMMV
- Talk to several agents and brokers and do NOT falsify any applications.


My life insurance company had no restrictions or increased prices. They did
want to know however. New York Life.

Al G

Rom wrote:
Few questions:
1. Are my estimates around the right range?
2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
C150/C152 here?
3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
annuals?...
4. What should I look for here?
5. Additional little questions:
a) hangar cost - what do you all recommend here? Hangar? Tie-down?
b) landing fees - how do these work
c) who do I talk to at a local airport (KAPA is closest to
Highlands Ranch) to find out about these?

Rom

The next time on a long driving trip, when you see an airport sign,
pull in and try to rent a plane. I did this in 2004 as a road trip took
me through all but two states west of the Mississippi. I found not a
single place where I could pull in and rent a plane. Some FBOs didn't
rent. Others did rent, but only if you were a local flyer. All of them
required a check-out ride which would take 1.5 hours or so, and after
jumping through that hurdle, they often required you to schedule the
plane days in advance. For long trips they required you to pay 3 hours
rental each day whether you flew or not. So . . .

I bought a Cessna 150 IFR equippped in the price range you mentioned
and have averaged 150 hours each of the last two years. I can fly when
I want, have the plane in exactly the condition I last flew it, fly for
days or land and tie-it down at some remote airport for several days,
and the total cost, including fuel, oil, hanger, all inspections,
maintenance, repair, insurance, and set-aside for engine overhaul is
still *less* per hour than the rental rate in this part of the world
(Missouri.)

For instance, my cost in 2005 (150 hours) including everything
mentioned above was $45.00 per hour.

I also think owning your own plane is a safety issue because I control
who flys and works on the plane. In addition I learn the quirks of that
particular plane.

Do you have an engine and prop reserve out of that $45 an hour? How
about a reserve for insurance, hanger or tiedown rent, annual inspection
fees? I'm sure that the plane (being a 150) is paid for so that fee
doesn' apply.

I am worried that you are giving the guy too rosy of a picture of plane
ownerhship expenses. Maybe you are and if so these are very reasonable
numbers. It costs me over $1000 a month to keep and fly our Mooney.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

wrote:

Rom wrote:

Few questions:
1. Are my estimates around the right range?
2. What can a no-rating owner expect for insurance per year on a
C150/C152 here?
3. Maintenance... Tricky, I know... but what are the average cost on
annuals?...
4. What should I look for here?
5. Additional little questions:
a) hangar cost - what do you all recommend here? Hangar? Tie-down?
b) landing fees - how do these work
c) who do I talk to at a local airport (KAPA is closest to
Highlands Ranch) to find out about these?

Rom


The next time on a long driving trip, when you see an airport sign,
pull in and try to rent a plane. I did this in 2004 as a road trip took
me through all but two states west of the Mississippi. I found not a
single place where I could pull in and rent a plane. Some FBOs didn't
rent. Others did rent, but only if you were a local flyer. All of them
required a check-out ride which would take 1.5 hours or so, and after
jumping through that hurdle, they often required you to schedule the
plane days in advance. For long trips they required you to pay 3 hours
rental each day whether you flew or not. So . . .

I bought a Cessna 150 IFR equippped in the price range you mentioned
and have averaged 150 hours each of the last two years. I can fly when
I want, have the plane in exactly the condition I last flew it, fly for
days or land and tie-it down at some remote airport for several days,
and the total cost, including fuel, oil, hanger, all inspections,
maintenance, repair, insurance, and set-aside for engine overhaul is
still *less* per hour than the rental rate in this part of the world
(Missouri.)

For instance, my cost in 2005 (150 hours) including everything
mentioned above was $45.00 per hour.

I also think owning your own plane is a safety issue because I control
who flys and works on the plane. In addition I learn the quirks of that
particular plane.