EFlybook Pirep

The unit will pay for itself
within a year for the average cross country flyer.
At over a thousand dollars for the EFlybook, how do you figure it pays
for itself?
I spend $80 every quarter to purchase new charts and approach plates.

This must be "new math". $80/quarter=$320/year. The unit costs over a
thousand dollars, so it would take three to four years of this just to
pay for the unit, not counting the data subscription costs.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
news
So far, no HDD issues for me, even though I regularly fly at 10-11k
feet. I suspect the newer generations of hard drives are much less
susceptible to density altitude problems.

If 10K-11K is about as high as you ever get, I would not expect you to
notice any sigificant loss of lifetime for the hard drive. They are
typically rated to at least 10K feet, meaning they are specifically designed
to operate normally up to that altitude.

It's the people who fly much higher than that (without pressurization, of
course) who are likely to run into problems. I doubt it's a generational
thing. I think it's just that you're not doing anything that would cause
the drive to fail early.

That said, I do think that solid state, non-volatile storage, electronic
paper such as found in the eFlybook is the future. Personally, I'm hoping
for electronic paper configured as sheets with holes for a binder and some
sort of easy-to-use PC interface (maybe wireless, like Bluetooth, so you
don't even have to plug each page in individually), so that you can prepare
a binder of all the charts likely to be used (according to plan and backup
plan) and be assured they are imaged correctly before the flight starts.
The eFlybook is a good step forward, but it still has the problem that if it
fails in flight for some reason, you can't switch to the next page you need
for the flight.

Pete

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 05:52:55 GMT, Grumman-581
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 01:13:45 GMT, Bill Zaleski
wrote:
Ms. Longworth is none of the above. Her knowledge, intellect, and
consideration is way above board. She is a regular and valuable
contributor to this NG. It is her choice to select the option of her
choice, and it is frankly, none of your business.

Actually, I was giving Longworth the benefit of the doubt in that
maybe the x-no-archive was done by mistake by some setting on their
newsreader. The fact that someone can create a post that is on topic
and possibly useful to future readers is somewhat at odds with someone
who would intentionally use the x-no-archive option...

She owes you nothing. Take a hike!

Calling someone you know nothing about "inconsiderate, stupid, or just
cowardly" is hardly giving someone the benefit of the doubt, as you
say. You should be appreciative of her input, and leave it at that,
but I expect a further smart-ass reply. Have at it.

The unit costs $1200 including a year's subscription. Subsequent
subscriptions are $250.00.

You also have to factor in the time spent doing revisions (for Jepp users),
as well as the hassle of carrying around all of the paper for both Jepp and
Naco.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:59:06 GMT, Bill Zaleski
wrote:
Calling someone you know nothing about "inconsiderate, stupid, or just
cowardly" is hardly giving someone the benefit of the doubt, as you
say.

Notice that it is qualified as "some people"... In Longworth's post, I
was giving them the benefit of the doubt that perhaps they might just
be ignorant of the aspects of x-no-archive... If the post had not been
something that I thouight might be useful for someone searching for
information on this topic in the future, I would not brought up the
issue...

You should be appreciative of her input, and leave it at that,
but I expect a further smart-ass reply. Have at it.

Well, if you insist... How about, "You're ugly and your mother dresses
you funny"? grin Feel better now?

But that's ok... I know where you're coming from...

--
http://grumman581.googlepages.com/problemsinlife

The unit will pay for itself within a year for the average
cross country flyer. At over a thousand dollars for the
EFlybook, how do you figure it pays for itself?

I spend $80 every quarter to purchase new charts and approach plates.

This must be "new math". $80/quarter=$320/year. The unit costs over a
thousand dollars, so it would take three to four years of this just to
pay for the unit, not counting the data subscription costs.

I looked at the unit at OSH (show price $899). I like the idea, but
given today's processing and storage capacity, the eflybook is
overpriced. Additionally, I would prefer a metal framed case. Aviation
is too rough on plastic cased products.

Everyone needs to assess the tradeoffs for themselves. Everyone has
different thresholds for safety, flexibility, money and inconvenience.

If your willing to pick and print a few charts for free, then any solution
that costs more than nothing is not going to pay for itself over any period
of time. My requirements have also been that I want a good number of charts
with me to accomodate changing plans with a minimal investment of time to
keep them up to date. Cost was important but about third on the list.

I think that, for the cost, the eFlyBook is a good set of compromises of
size, weight, processing power, and storage.

I used to do the paper Jepp charts. Loved the flexibility and quality. Hated
the regular filing. I traded some flexibility and convenience to keep it
somewhat affordable, I had a subscription for the smallest area that
contained my regular haunts. I had to then plan for and buy additional
charts for trips outside of my area. However, I liked the idea of having
charts for every airport that I might want to go to or divert to - with the
obvious reduction in payload and cabin space. That solution cost me about
$700 a year.

Switching to JeppView was a fair solution to eliminate the filing. The user
interface is about as easy as it gets for picking and printing. It was
possible to print charts for a large area or a good buffer around a route.
But, that is a lot of time and a lot of printing. It was not possible to
just check weather, grab my bag and go. Even if I had printed charts, I had
to make sure that I had the current ones. I frequently would just print them
all again rather that spend the time to determine which ones I needed. I
started out side-by-side, double sided. Cutting and punching to emulate the
printed Jepp charts. Finally, I just left them side-by-side, single sided
without cutting or punching. A little less convenient in the cockpit but
overall more time efficient. That solution also cost me about $700 a year
but I was time ahead because I didn't have to file updates for airports and
whole states I never went to.

For flexibility and safety, having a large number of charts in the cockpit
is the best solution. A full rack of Jepp binders or printing enough from
JeppView solve the problem but at a large financial expense and a large time
expense - not to mention paper and printer ink. I could have gone a little
cheaper with some of the smaller electronic suppliers but there still was
the picking and printing problem. I felt that the JeppView interface was the
best and stayed with it in spite of cheaper options.

The ideal solution is obviously to have a full set of charts in electronic
form in the cockpit. But, a tablet PC was just too much for me. I could not
justify the cost even if I would switch to one of the cheaper chart
suppliers. The additional features of a tablet make it worth the money - if
you want the additional features. All I wanted was approach charts.

I had not heard about the eFlyBook prior to Oshkosh. I actually went to the
myairplane.com booth to check out their user interface on the PC. If I
thought it was usable, I was going to dump Jepp and try them out for a
picking and printing solution. Imagine my surprise when I walk up and they
are demoing the eFlyBook.

For me, it is reasonably priced and does exactly what I want. Plus, with
myairplane.com's annual subscription price of $250, it is much cheaper than
Jepp and even cheaper than other garage-shop suppliers. For the first time,
I have can check weather, grab my bag and go.

eFlyBook strengths:
S1: small size - about the size of a kneeboard
S2: user interface uses mostly pretty large soft buttons so pecking at
them with a stylus is not a problem.
S3: Charts are easily found by airport ID
S4: Other features like having checklists or manauls add value
S5: scratch pad might be handy although I haven't made much use of that
yet. I still keep paper at hand.

eFlyBook weaknesses:
W1: somewhat fragile physical design. It is definitely not something you
want to just stuff in your bag or throw in the back seat unprotected
W2: No case is provided.
W3: Slow processor makes navigating around a very thoughtful affair.
W4: Boot up time is lengthy. It does not operate like a PDA where it is
instant on. W5: No convenient way to power it without a fairly combersome
"docking station"
W5: Some advertised features are missing - like the airport directory.
W6: Some advertised features don't work well and are really beyond the
definition of the device - like enroute charts.
W7: keys on the soft keyboard are pretty small. It takes a bit of finese
to hit them in turbulence. This is necessary for entering the airport ID to
pull up the charts.

For W1 - you just have to take care of it. I think it is a good compromise.
I would rather have the unit light and small and be able to put the kind of
case that works for me around it.

For W2 - I can easily different pilots wanting different solutions - like
a hard case or a BodyGlove style or ballistic nylon case.Any of these would
add value and usefulness without encumbering the basic unit. If it lasts two
years, I'll be money ahead.I'm thinking of making one out of ballistic
nylon, stiffened with plastic panels with a felt liner.

For W3 - Sitting in a comfy chair, it seems very slow. In the cockpit, it
seems just fine. I tend to punch a button, scan, punch the next button,
scan,...

For W4 - I can turn it on and get to an airport chart in 1 minute 45
seconds. That's probably not much more than it would be to find the right
binder and find the right page. It's also probably faster than booting up a
tablet. Battery life is good enough to have it on for the whole flight. Of
course, you could also plug it in, not depend on battery, and just leave it
on.

For W5: I'm sure they will come and I don't need that to justify the device.
However, presuming that they are usable copies of the official AF/D. It will
eliminate another subscription for me. If they are marginal scans, I'm not
interested.

For W6: I wanted a display about the size of an approach chart. Even if if
were a color display, I cannot imagine trying to use if for enroute. It will
be interesting to see where they go with this feature. It might be good as a
backup but I plan to keep my paper versions for now.

For W7: I'm sure they'll have a search by pull down list in the not too
distant future.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK
"john smith" wrote in message
...
The unit will pay for itself within a year for the average
cross country flyer. At over a thousand dollars for the
EFlybook, how do you figure it pays for itself?

I spend $80 every quarter to purchase new charts and approach plates.

This must be "new math". $80/quarter=$320/year. The unit costs over a
thousand dollars, so it would take three to four years of this just to
pay for the unit, not counting the data subscription costs.

I looked at the unit at OSH (show price $899). I like the idea, but
given today's processing and storage capacity, the eflybook is
overpriced. Additionally, I would prefer a metal framed case. Aviation
is too rough on plastic cased products.

Sorry. In my post below I said just plug the eFlyBook in and leave it on
implying that that was possible in an airplane. Not yet. They are talking
about developing a better cradle for it - the "docking station" that comes
with it is pretty cumbersome. They also need to develop a mobile adapter so
that you could plug it into cigarette lighter power.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK
"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message
m...
Everyone needs to assess the tradeoffs for themselves. Everyone has
different thresholds for safety, flexibility, money and inconvenience.

If your willing to pick and print a few charts for free, then any solution
that costs more than nothing is not going to pay for itself over any
period of time. My requirements have also been that I want a good number
of charts with me to accomodate changing plans with a minimal investment
of time to keep them up to date. Cost was important but about third on the
list.

I think that, for the cost, the eFlyBook is a good set of compromises of
size, weight, processing power, and storage.

I used to do the paper Jepp charts. Loved the flexibility and quality.
Hated the regular filing. I traded some flexibility and convenience to
keep it somewhat affordable, I had a subscription for the smallest area
that contained my regular haunts. I had to then plan for and buy
additional charts for trips outside of my area. However, I liked the idea
of having charts for every airport that I might want to go to or divert
to - with the obvious reduction in payload and cabin space. That solution
cost me about $700 a year.

Switching to JeppView was a fair solution to eliminate the filing. The
user interface is about as easy as it gets for picking and printing. It
was possible to print charts for a large area or a good buffer around a
route. But, that is a lot of time and a lot of printing. It was not
possible to just check weather, grab my bag and go. Even if I had printed
charts, I had to make sure that I had the current ones. I frequently would
just print them all again rather that spend the time to determine which
ones I needed. I started out side-by-side, double sided. Cutting and
punching to emulate the printed Jepp charts. Finally, I just left them
side-by-side, single sided without cutting or punching. A little less
convenient in the cockpit but overall more time efficient. That solution
also cost me about $700 a year but I was time ahead because I didn't have
to file updates for airports and whole states I never went to.

For flexibility and safety, having a large number of charts in the cockpit
is the best solution. A full rack of Jepp binders or printing enough from
JeppView solve the problem but at a large financial expense and a large
time expense - not to mention paper and printer ink. I could have gone a
little cheaper with some of the smaller electronic suppliers but there
still was the picking and printing problem. I felt that the JeppView
interface was the best and stayed with it in spite of cheaper options.

The ideal solution is obviously to have a full set of charts in electronic
form in the cockpit. But, a tablet PC was just too much for me. I could
not justify the cost even if I would switch to one of the cheaper chart
suppliers. The additional features of a tablet make it worth the money -
if you want the additional features. All I wanted was approach charts.

I had not heard about the eFlyBook prior to Oshkosh. I actually went to
the myairplane.com booth to check out their user interface on the PC. If I
thought it was usable, I was going to dump Jepp and try them out for a
picking and printing solution. Imagine my surprise when I walk up and they
are demoing the eFlyBook.

For me, it is reasonably priced and does exactly what I want. Plus, with
myairplane.com's annual subscription price of $250, it is much cheaper
than Jepp and even cheaper than other garage-shop suppliers. For the first
time, I have can check weather, grab my bag and go.

eFlyBook strengths:
S1: small size - about the size of a kneeboard
S2: user interface uses mostly pretty large soft buttons so pecking at
them with a stylus is not a problem.
S3: Charts are easily found by airport ID
S4: Other features like having checklists or manauls add value
S5: scratch pad might be handy although I haven't made much use of that
yet. I still keep paper at hand.

eFlyBook weaknesses:
W1: somewhat fragile physical design. It is definitely not something
you want to just stuff in your bag or throw in the back seat unprotected
W2: No case is provided.
W3: Slow processor makes navigating around a very thoughtful affair.
W4: Boot up time is lengthy. It does not operate like a PDA where it is
instant on. W5: No convenient way to power it without a fairly combersome
"docking station"
W5: Some advertised features are missing - like the airport directory.
W6: Some advertised features don't work well and are really beyond the
definition of the device - like enroute charts.
W7: keys on the soft keyboard are pretty small. It takes a bit of
finese to hit them in turbulence. This is necessary for entering the
airport ID to pull up the charts.

For W1 - you just have to take care of it. I think it is a good
compromise. I would rather have the unit light and small and be able to
put the kind of case that works for me around it.

For W2 - I can easily different pilots wanting different solutions -
like a hard case or a BodyGlove style or ballistic nylon case.Any of these
would add value and usefulness without encumbering the basic unit. If it
lasts two years, I'll be money ahead.I'm thinking of making one out of
ballistic nylon, stiffened with plastic panels with a felt liner.

For W3 - Sitting in a comfy chair, it seems very slow. In the cockpit, it
seems just fine. I tend to punch a button, scan, punch the next button,
scan,...

For W4 - I can turn it on and get to an airport chart in 1 minute 45
seconds. That's probably not much more than it would be to find the right
binder and find the right page. It's also probably faster than booting up
a tablet. Battery life is good enough to have it on for the whole flight.
Of course, you could also plug it in, not depend on battery, and just
leave it on.

For W5: I'm sure they will come and I don't need that to justify the
device. However, presuming that they are usable copies of the official
AF/D. It will eliminate another subscription for me. If they are marginal
scans, I'm not interested.

For W6: I wanted a display about the size of an approach chart. Even if if
were a color display, I cannot imagine trying to use if for enroute. It
will be interesting to see where they go with this feature. It might be
good as a backup but I plan to keep my paper versions for now.

For W7: I'm sure they'll have a search by pull down list in the not too
distant future.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK
"john smith" wrote in message
...
The unit will pay for itself within a year for the average
cross country flyer. At over a thousand dollars for the
EFlybook, how do you figure it pays for itself?

I spend $80 every quarter to purchase new charts and approach plates.

This must be "new math". $80/quarter=$320/year. The unit costs over a
thousand dollars, so it would take three to four years of this just to
pay for the unit, not counting the data subscription costs.

I looked at the unit at OSH (show price $899). I like the idea, but
given today's processing and storage capacity, the eflybook is
overpriced. Additionally, I would prefer a metal framed case. Aviation
is too rough on plastic cased products.

"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message
m...
: Everyone needs to assess the tradeoffs for themselves. Everyone has
: different thresholds for safety, flexibility, money and inconvenience.
:
: If your willing to pick and print a few charts for free, ...


Printing isn't free...

Thank you for all the kind words..

The support so far for the eFlybook product (which we are doing in
partnership with ARINC) has simply been amazing. Its certainly
exciting times for us here at MyAirplane.com.

For Longsworth, I'm truely sorry you had some problems with us. As
mentioned previously, we are a small 3 man shop (well, not 3 guys
anymore) and do get overloaded from time to time. Please accept my
appologies and if you would like to call us, I would be more than happy
to send out our current CD's or DVD's for you.

if you call our 888 number, look me up in the company directory, you
can by-pass everyone here at our office and go straight to the top, if
I'm not at my desk, it transfers the call to my cell phone.

Someone mentioned AirCharts, that is a GREAT product and I use it
myself while flying. Our charts and products are all electronic, I do
fly mostly electronic now, but always have AirCharts close by.

On my device, I have my POH, Garmin Avionics, Handheld and even my
maintenece manual loaded on it (in PDF format). Got some eBooks there
as well to pass time when needed. I've also installed a Compact Flash
card and loaded some mp3's onto it. All in all, its used for more than
just charts.

We just don't sell products, we actualy use them..

Dennis
MyAirplane.com