Silly controller

wrote:
Newps wrote:

wrote:

Separation services must be given until the pilot reports completion of
the approach(uncontrolled field) or lands/goes missed(tower). I can
cancel your approach clearance but better have a damn good reason.


Okay, but what terminology do you use to get the pilot to report
"completion"? Say there isn't a tower and you want to let the pilot
switch to the CTAF.

"Report completion of the approach, change to advisory freq approved."
Now I should have added that if the pilot never reports it doesn't shut
down the airport like if an IFR doesn't cancel. We are told to use our
best judgement. It's bureaucratic mumbo jumbo but that's the rules we
have to operate under.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.



No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."


How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

Sam Spade wrote in news:FhrIg.196$c07.193@fed1read04:

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

Request for an ILS approach is not a request for an IFR clearance using
CRAFT as guidelines. You have not met the C part of CRAFT

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

Nope, you were not cleared, nor were you on an IFR flight. You were VFR in
the beginning and was treated accordingly from what I have been reading.

ATC does not know what is outside YOUR window (VMC or IMC). The above ATC
instructions does not meet the C part of CRAFT (Cleared to)

Allen

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

I've had the situation where I've contacted SoCal approach just like
that, VFR, for an approach into STS (which was IFR with nighttime fog).
They gave me a squawk and all, but told me to maintain VFR while they
worked out an actual IFR clearance. At some point I was given a hard
IFR altitude (they used that phrase) and said "you are now IFR". I
don't remember whether they said "cleared to", but I bet they did.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Sam Spade wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.



No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't maintain
VFR.

Sam Spade wrote:
Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

Nope. What you want to hear is "cleared to the Chino airport". Then
you're IFR.

On the other hand, "maintain 4,000" sure sounds pretty IFR-like. My best
guess is the controller probably meant to issue you a clearance limit of
the Chino airport but mis-spoke. On the other hand, he could still be
moving other traffic around, and won't be able to issue you your clearance
until he's got the blips separated sufficiently.

But, there's no need to guess, just ask the guy, "confirm 34B is IFR this
time?" He'll either confirm that you are indeed IFR, or he'll tell you
that you're not yet and why. It's great fun to nit-pick the FARs and AIM
and second-guess what a clearance must have meant on usenet, but in the
air, if you're ever unsure what the controller meant, don't play games; ask
for clarification.

Newps wrote:



Sam Spade wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.



No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?


No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't maintain
VFR.

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.

Roy Smith wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:
Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

Nope. What you want to hear is "cleared to the Chino airport". Then
you're IFR.

On the other hand, "maintain 4,000" sure sounds pretty IFR-like.

If he was VFR, I think it just sounds like flight following talk.

Roy Smith wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?


Nope. What you want to hear is "cleared to the Chino airport". Then
you're IFR.

On the other hand, "maintain 4,000" sure sounds pretty IFR-like.



Nope, you requested a practice approach, thereby agreeing to be
vectored/sequenced.

Sam Spade wrote:


No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't
maintain VFR.


So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

When you're VFR. You asked to be vectored/sequenced for an approach.
Just how do you think he's going to do that?




I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Then that was wrong. An IFR clearance must start with "cleared to..."