Silly controller

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR clearance?

It never was an IFR clearance. It may be a cardinal IFR altitude, but
being at an altitude isn't the same as a clearance.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" writes:

The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established"
contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted IFR procedure), an altitude,
and a clearance limit (landing Foobar airport, or executing the published missed
approach procedure). How is that not an IFR clearance?

I think it is, unless the controller adds the words "maintain VFR".
When I want a practice approach and the controller fails to say "VFR",
I add it back in to try and make sure, like:
"Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR".

No, to be IFR you must have a clearance limit. The clearance must clear
you to some specific thing (like an intersection or most commonly, a
destination).
So a common popup IFR approach clearance sounds like...
"Cleared to the Foobar airport via radar vectors, fly heading 123,
maintain 2000 until established cleared for the ILS runway 22 foobar".
(Notice the "cleared to Foobar airport at the begining showing its an
IFR clearance.

-Robert, CFII

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:FhrIg.196$c07.193@fed1read04...

How about this:

Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at
5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right."

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?


No.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:8UrIg.204$c07.37@fed1read04...

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?


It never did.



I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.


Nope.

("Jose" wrote)
"Tracy", being an uncontrolled airport in NorCal's area, wouldn't have
any strips at all :-)

Just because it's uncontrolled doesn't mean they don't have strips. In
fact, there's an entire thread about a destination in NY with its own
strips. I think that's way out of control.


I laughed. :-)


Montblack

In article ,
Jose wrote:

ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the
Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000."

Did the controller issue an IFR clearance?

I've had the situation where I've contacted SoCal approach just like
that, VFR, for an approach into STS (which was IFR with nighttime fog).

SoCal, into STS?

Hamish

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:44:37 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:

So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.

Maybe it's a West Coast thing?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

SoCal, into STS?

SoCal, NoCal, LoCal, it's all the same to me.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:44:37 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:


So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.


Maybe it's a West Coast thing?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Actually, it may be a pre-TCA/Class B thing. Before the TCA came into
existence I don't believe there was any provision to assign an altitude
to a VFR aircraft.

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:25:39 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:44:37 -0700, Sam Spade wrote:


So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR
clearance?

I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no
controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the
fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the
requested ILS to that airport.

Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it.

I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the
old CFI-I.


Maybe it's a West Coast thing?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Actually, it may be a pre-TCA/Class B thing. Before the TCA came into
existence I don't believe there was any provision to assign an altitude
to a VFR aircraft.

Pre-TCA was before my time. :-)

But here in the NE, at least with the ATC facilities that I've worked with,
an IFR clearance has always included a clearance limit. I've had
controllers sometimes forget I'm IFR, but I've not had them ask me to
report canceling IFR absent a prior, proper IFR clearance.

Best,
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)