CRJ crash at KLEX:

In article , Owen
wrote:

Jay Beckman wrote:

"Jose" wrote in message
et...
SUGGEST POSSIBLE WARNING PAGE (SIMILAR TO
HOUSTON HOBBY) TO CLARIFY MULTIPLE RWY ENDS.

What does this mean? Where would the page go? What would it say?

Jose

The first page of their Jep binders? In bold letters on any/all SIDs for
KLEX?

"NOTICE TO CREW OPERATING OUT OF KLEX, Lexington, Kentucky"

CLOSE PROXIMITY OF RWY 22 and RWY 26

As the departure ends of RWY 22 and RWY 26 are in very close proximity to
each other, exercise extreme caution and confirm visually and by reference
to flight instruments that you are on RWY 22. RWY 26 UNUSABLE for turbine
aircraft use.

Why should Rwy 26 be unusable for turbine aircraft? It is 3,500 feet long and
plenty long. Geez if you're going to ban turbines from 3,500 ft runways, the
Citations using my home airport would have to go elsewhere because 3,500 is
the longest runway. How about just banning aircraft from using the runway if
they need a longer one? Wait, I think that's already covered somewhere.....

Pavement weight restrictions.

"john smith" wrote in message
...

Are you sure? The preliminary NTSB report gives the time as 6:07 EDT.
An
online calculator gives the time of sunrise at KLEX on that date as
6:04:37
AM.


Eastern Standard Time. LEX is now on Eastern Daylight Savings Time.


I'd expect the program to handle that.

Ron Lee wrote:
"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what they did.
WOW
Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

Don't agree with you Barry.

I never said that. A top poster did, and I was misquoted.

(Ron Lee) wrote:

"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what
they did. WOW


Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

Don't agree with you Barry. They should have seen that you taxi
rightish from the terminal past Rwy 26 then either one (apparently
from pics) of two taxiways to Rwy 22. Even I can do that.

The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway that is apparent in the
photographs

News reports quote another pilot as saying that old right-hand taxiway had
a recently-erected barrier across it. He said it was a complete surprise
when he came across it the first time.

Some guy wrote:

Isn't checking the heading indicator to to make sure you're on the
right runway was a standard checkoff list type of a thing?

Have you never been on a commercial aircraft where the engines are spooling
up as the aircraft turns onto the runway? Do you really think they have
cross-checked with the compass at that point?

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:30:51 GMT, john smith wrote:

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

I think seeing a heading of 260 instead of 220 while sitting on the
runway would clue me in, no matter what the signs looked like.

Not necessarily. Think of all the "read back, hear back" mishaps.
One hears what one expects to hear.
The same can be said for vision. One expects to see certain visual cues
so disregards the discrepancies.

Exactly.

A friend asked me about the Comair accident yesterday morning. I told
him that I was mystified why two experienced pilots didn't read their
heading info as they lined up with the runway.

I explained to him that, in my flying days years ago, I'd preset my DG
to the magnetic compass during preflight. Since it was hard to read
those little compasses with any precision, I'd wait until I was lined
up for takeoff to set the DG to the runway heading. Aligning the DG
automatically confirmed that I was using the intended runway.

It wasn't until later that morning that something, possibly relevant,
occurred to me.

In my case, I'd do something explicit - aligning my DG - that would
hammer the heading into my mind. I'd not only look at the heading,
I'd have to think about it.

In the case of the Comair pilots, they probably had a glass cockpit.
And, of course, they had no requirement for a heading adjustment, nor
any way to perform said adjustment even if they wanted to. Further,
they probably made 1000 takeoffs a year, 4 or 5 a day, day in, day
out. Sure, they'd look at their heading readouts every time, as I'm
sure they did on Sunday. But the heading had been right all those
years, every time they looked. They had every expectation that it
would be right, every time they looked, far into the future. Looking
at the heading had become a habit for them. But, perhaps, they'd
grown out of the habit of thinking about the heading they were seeing.

I don't know how transport pilots operate. If there's nothing
explicit in their takeoff procedures that have them call out or
crosscheck the heading before they apply takeoff power, I could see
how they could look at their heading, but not *see* it, and how this
accident might take place.

This might be a 'human factors' situation.

Can any transport pilots expound on your takeoff procedures? Is it
SOP to do something explict when you're checking your takeoff heading?

Thanks.

Tom

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

(Ron Lee) wrote:

"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what
they did. WOW


Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

Don't agree with you Barry. They should have seen that you taxi
rightish from the terminal past Rwy 26 then either one (apparently
from pics) of two taxiways to Rwy 22. Even I can do that.

The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway that is apparent in the
photographs

News reports quote another pilot as saying that old right-hand taxiway had
a recently-erected barrier across it. He said it was a complete surprise
when he came across it the first time.

The diagram has not been updated to show the newly added 600 foot
extension and connecting taxiway.

James Robinson wrote:

(Ron Lee) wrote:

"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what
they did. WOW


Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

Don't agree with you Barry. They should have seen that you taxi
rightish from the terminal past Rwy 26 then either one (apparently
from pics) of two taxiways to Rwy 22. Even I can do that.

The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway that is apparent in the
photographs

News reports quote another pilot as saying that old right-hand taxiway had
a recently-erected barrier across it. He said it was a complete surprise
when he came across it the first time.

Regardless of the taxiway issue (which BTW seems BETTER) is that you
must cross Rwy 26 before you get to the correct Rwy 22. That is
apparent in the outdated airport diagram and recent aerial pics.

Ron Lee

"john smith" wrote in message news:jsmith-

The diagram has not been updated to show the newly added 600 foot
extension and connecting taxiway.

Quite the opposite, I think.

It's a simple line up check that works with any aircraft, similar to
your 'Gump' check.. squak, strobe, lights, and ice,
A/C & pressurization, controls free heading, altimeter.

Bush

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:56:15 -0500, Bush
wrote:

6:10 PM the National Transportation Safety Board confirmed that
the Comair flight was assigned departure from runway 22, however
departed runway 26 (3500 ft.) since it was closer to the terminal.
Accelerate-stop for this A/C at this weight should be some 5356 feet.
Jees they'll let anyone fly them.

"It is that large chain of events, with no intervening variable, that
produces the accident"

Bush