CRJ crash at KLEX:

In article ,
(Ron Lee) wrote:

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff. "

That comment does not make sense. To get to Rwy 22 you must cross Rwy
26 totally. Whether you take Taxiway A7 or A8 seems irrelevant. If
you are stopped after crossing Rwy 26 by a barricade on A8, why would
you think, "OK, let's forget Rwy 26 and just use this one"?

Remember a few of the previous postings.
Had they not been there recently, they would have remembered the taxiway
ending at the runway with the appropriate greater than 90 degree turn to
the runway. Exactly the situation they found themselves in Sunday
morning.

Bob Moore wrote:


TAKEOFF
Configuration Check The First Officer passes the checklist to the
flight engineer at this point.The flight engineer
will announce "Configuration Check" and will
challenge the pilots on items that follow.

I guess we better put a guy riding sideways in the back of the CRJ
cockpits :-). Make more sense than requiring a redundant controller.



Compasses...CHECKED Both pilots will cross check compasses against
takeoff-runway heading.

Are these whiskey compasses or gyros?

On 27 Aug 2006 20:14:18 -0700, "Tony" wrote:
There will have to be some really odd circumstances if this isn't
called pilot error. In fact, I'd appreciate someone offering a
reasonable theory that does not implicate the pilots.

Space aliens?

Elvis was on the plane?

Left wing conspiracy?

Right wing conspiracy?

Left wing, right wing, and fuselage conspiracy?

Or maybe just "**** Happens"...

James Robinson wrote in message ...
john smith wrote:

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

(Ron Lee) wrote:

"Aluckyguess" wrote:

Looking at that diagram I see how easy it would of been to do what
they did. WOW


Here's a diagram dated 08/03/2006:



Don't agree with you Barry. They should have seen that you taxi
rightish from the terminal past Rwy 26 then either one (apparently
from pics) of two taxiways to Rwy 22. Even I can do that.

The diagram doesn't show the additional taxiway that is apparent in
the photographs

News reports quote another pilot as saying that old right-hand
taxiway had a recently-erected barrier across it. He said it was a
complete surprise when he came across it the first time.

The diagram has not been updated to show the newly added 600 foot
extension and connecting taxiway.

Here is a link to a diagram of the changes that were made:

http://tinyurl.com/zybuf

Here is a link to a photo of the old arrangement from Yahoo maps:

http://tinyurl.com/qknmg

As you can see, A-8 would take you to the end of runway 26,

ITYM "runway 22."

and A-7 would
take you 500 feet from the end of the runway.

Looking at the diagram in the above link, plus recent news pictures, the
changes have not extended the runway at the north end,

I think many have missed that point.

but have in fact
diplaced the threshold by 400 feet or so. With the displaced threshold,
the old taxiway A-8 has been closed, and therefore doesn't show on the
diagram referenced in the earlier post.

These aren't super clear, but you can see how the runway has been
repainted to reflect the displaced threshold:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/...lane/ntsb2.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/h99og

- Rick

john smith wrote in message ...
Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

One article had a very tiny picture that described the orange and white
barricades, but you really couldn't see them, and there was not a larger
picture available.

- Rick

Ron Natalie wrote

Bob Moore wrote:
Compasses...CHECKED Both pilots will cross check compasses against
takeoff-runway heading.

Are these whiskey compasses or gyros?

Horizontal Situation Indicators (HSI), gyro stabilized and
slaved from Flux Gate Compasses.

Bob Moore

Ron Lee wrote in message ...
James Robinson wrote:

john smith wrote:

Thanks James. Your diagram makes it clear, but the photos show that A-8
still exists. Is it blocked off with barracades as other posters have
noted?

I don't know from personal experience, but the news reports on the day of
the accident included the following quote:

" The construction changes momentarily confused veteran pilot Lowell Wiley
two days before the Comair crash. He nosed his plane down the same taxiway
that he had taken for years until hitting a barricade.

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto
the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper takeoff.
"

That comment does not make sense. To get to Rwy 22 you must cross Rwy
26 totally. Whether you take Taxiway A7 or A8 seems irrelevant. If
you are stopped after crossing Rwy 26 by a barricade on A8, why would
you think, "OK, let's forget Rwy 26

ITYM "Rwy 22"

and just use this one"?

- Rick

john smith wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Ron Lee) wrote:

"It was a total surprise," said Wiley, who adjusted course and got onto
the
correct runway. He now understands why the Comair pilot might have
headed
down a runway 1,500 feet (450 meters) too short to make a proper
takeoff. "

That comment does not make sense. To get to Rwy 22 you must cross Rwy
26 totally. Whether you take Taxiway A7 or A8 seems irrelevant. If
you are stopped after crossing Rwy 26 by a barricade on A8, why would
you think, "OK, let's forget Rwy 26 and just use this one"?

Remember a few of the previous postings.
Had they not been there recently, they would have remembered the taxiway
ending at the runway with the appropriate greater than 90 degree turn to
the runway. Exactly the situation they found themselves in Sunday
morning.

Exactly...except for missing one 45 degree turn, and not noticing the
taxiway and runway lights off to starboard, which you would not see on
arriving at Rwy 22.

- Rick

"Rick" wrote:

James Robinson wrote in message ...

As you can see, A-8 would take you to the end of runway 26,

ITYM "runway 22."

Yes, thanks for the correction. (And keep me away from Lexington if I can't
figure out which runway is which.)

Bush wrote:
It's a simple line up check that works with any aircraft, similar to
your 'Gump' check.. squak, strobe, lights, and ice,
A/C & pressurization, controls free heading, altimeter.

Bush

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:56:15 -0500, Bush
wrote:


6:10 PM the National Transportation Safety Board confirmed that
the Comair flight was assigned departure from runway 22, however
departed runway 26 (3500 ft.) since it was closer to the terminal.
Accelerate-stop for this A/C at this weight should be some 5356 feet.
Jees they'll let anyone fly them.

"It is that large chain of events, with no intervening variable, that
produces the accident"

Bush


I like the Rabbit Theory Blame it on the Rabbit