Important message for SSA members

I really think the situation we are facing is that the SSA will be
around for a long time, hopefully with alert managers and dedicated
soaring folks.

It will be a shame if the Society has been the victim of a crook over
these past few years.

Mike

Stan - VA wrote:
I think it is pretty clear that if the SSA survives this latest bout of
mismanagment that our dues will mainly go to debt payment, and not to
services for members.

Several of us at our club have considered the pros and cons of the AOPA
idea. It definitely is worth discussing.

The AOPA has some real lobbying power. If the SSA ever had any, it
won't now. The amount of $ SSA had, has, or will have to spend on
lobbying efforts probably won't even open the door for us with anyone
in Washington. AOPA's clout is another matter.

I don't know that the AOPA would be interested, but 16,000 pilots would
be a healthy addition to their membership, if that is what the SSA
membership is. Of course, some SSA are already AOPA members.

A couple of pages monthly in the AOPA magizine would probably do
soaring a world of good. Most of the potential pilots for our sport
are already power pilots.

AIG, the insurer who underwrites the policies that come from
Costello's, already has a relationship with the AOPA. Probably
Costello's has a relationship with the AOPA too. Hopefully, we
maintain our insurance in its present form.

Let's face the reality of the situation. We may soon have no national
soaring umbrella organization. We will need to deal with that in some
fashion. Better to think about the alternatives now.

Stan Scott - VA

Tony Verhulst wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote:
We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.

Would we receive any notice inside AOPA? No! Not even inside EAA nor
even NAFI. Case in point, I used to be a NAFI (National Association of
Flight Instructors) member. In one of their monthly (mailed) newsletters
(2002), they warned us that the PTS (practical Test Standard)was
changing and to make sure that we trained our students to the new
standards. When I researched the matter I discovered that ONLY the
*airplane* PTS was changing - not glider, not helicopter, ... you get
the picture. I wrote a nice letter to the organization president and
editor explaining the situation and requested a public clarification. I
got nowhere - not even a clarification in their online newsletter which
would have cost them nothing to distribute. After several polite email
exchanges, I realized that unless you were an airplane instructor you
were nothing and that there was no point in me being a member. I
resigned in protest.

Expect similar treatment if we become part of AOPA.

Tony V. CFIG
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING

On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 23:17:21 UTC, Nyal Williams
wrote:

: Your posting on r.a.s. of the letter to the SSA membership
: calls into question your judgment, your ethics, your
: integrity, your loyalty to any organization of which
: you have ever been a part, your friendship with anyone
: you've ever known, and even your intelligence.

Why, exactly? What's so terrible about us foreigners hearing of this
sad affair?

If this had happened in a listed company in the UK, they would have
been legally obliged to make a public statement on the matter.

Ian

It doesn't sound like the problem is a crook, just gross incompetence.

Mike Schumann

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
I really think the situation we are facing is that the SSA will be
around for a long time, hopefully with alert managers and dedicated
soaring folks.

It will be a shame if the Society has been the victim of a crook over
these past few years.

Mike

Stan - VA wrote:
I think it is pretty clear that if the SSA survives this latest bout of
mismanagment that our dues will mainly go to debt payment, and not to
services for members.

Several of us at our club have considered the pros and cons of the AOPA
idea. It definitely is worth discussing.

The AOPA has some real lobbying power. If the SSA ever had any, it
won't now. The amount of $ SSA had, has, or will have to spend on
lobbying efforts probably won't even open the door for us with anyone
in Washington. AOPA's clout is another matter.

I don't know that the AOPA would be interested, but 16,000 pilots would
be a healthy addition to their membership, if that is what the SSA
membership is. Of course, some SSA are already AOPA members.

A couple of pages monthly in the AOPA magizine would probably do
soaring a world of good. Most of the potential pilots for our sport
are already power pilots.

AIG, the insurer who underwrites the policies that come from
Costello's, already has a relationship with the AOPA. Probably
Costello's has a relationship with the AOPA too. Hopefully, we
maintain our insurance in its present form.

Let's face the reality of the situation. We may soon have no national
soaring umbrella organization. We will need to deal with that in some
fashion. Better to think about the alternatives now.

Stan Scott - VA

Tony Verhulst wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote:
We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.

Would we receive any notice inside AOPA? No! Not even inside EAA nor
even NAFI. Case in point, I used to be a NAFI (National Association of
Flight Instructors) member. In one of their monthly (mailed)
newsletters
(2002), they warned us that the PTS (practical Test Standard)was
changing and to make sure that we trained our students to the new
standards. When I researched the matter I discovered that ONLY the
*airplane* PTS was changing - not glider, not helicopter, ... you get
the picture. I wrote a nice letter to the organization president and
editor explaining the situation and requested a public clarification. I
got nowhere - not even a clarification in their online newsletter which
would have cost them nothing to distribute. After several polite email
exchanges, I realized that unless you were an airplane instructor you
were nothing and that there was no point in me being a member. I
resigned in protest.

Expect similar treatment if we become part of AOPA.

Tony V. CFIG
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING

It is not only incompetence, it is indifference, and I have the emails
from the staff, volunteers and directors to back up that statement.

As to Tony's remarks about the National Association of Flight
Instructors, their magazine has been running a series of glider
training articles since expanding the format of their magazine. Other
specialties get similar exposu helos, acro, tailwheel and sport.

The wounds to SSA are likely terminal. The sooner US pilots start
thinking about what could or should replace it, the better. A good
start would be a different governing structure.

We shouldn't accuse anyone of dishonesty without firm evidence.

However, I can find no logical reason why a CFO would neglect to pay
$300,000 in taxes and the like. It's his job to make sure these
payments are made and to alert the company if there's a problem. I'm
afraid my first suspicion on hearing this news was that funds had been
diverted and the silence was to cover up their misappropriation.

I find it really hard to believe that this was just incompetence. If
the CFO was such a bozo, someone must have noticed by now!

Mike

Either way, the guy should have been fired on the spot, not given a paid
vacation.

Mike Schumann

"Mike the Strike" wrote in message
ups.com...
We shouldn't accuse anyone of dishonesty without firm evidence.

However, I can find no logical reason why a CFO would neglect to pay
$300,000 in taxes and the like. It's his job to make sure these
payments are made and to alert the company if there's a problem. I'm
afraid my first suspicion on hearing this news was that funds had been
diverted and the silence was to cover up their misappropriation.

I find it really hard to believe that this was just incompetence. If
the CFO was such a bozo, someone must have noticed by now!

Mike

Because the letter was a private one to members only
and the poster violated that confidentiality, evidently
without a clue to what he was doing.

It is not that it should have been covered up; the
writer stated that they were taking the legal and investigative
steps necessary to get to the bottom of the matter,
at which point, presumably, a public statement would
be made containing the facts of the case. That is
a responsible way to handle such an incident.

Creating a public uproar before the facts are known
is irresponsible. I would not want such a person working
under my supervision, and I would never trust such
a person with any confidential information.

I'll have no more to say on this topic; it has been
bruited about too much already.

At 06:06 07 September 2006, Ian Johnston wrote:
On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 23:17:21 UTC, Nyal Williams
wrote:

: Your posting on r.a.s. of the letter to the SSA membership
: calls into question your judgment, your ethics, your
: integrity, your loyalty to any organization of which
: you have ever been a part, your friendship with anyone
: you've ever known, and even your intelligence.

Why, exactly? What's so terrible about us foreigners
hearing of this
sad affair?

If this had happened in a listed company in the UK,
they would have
been legally obliged to make a public statement on
the matter.

Ian

If SSA were to merge with a larger organization, EAA would be better
suited than AOPA. The EAA already has a number of Divisions &
Affiliates under its umbrella, including:

International Aerobatic Club
http://www.iac.org/

Vintage Aircraft Association
http://www.vintageaircraft.org/

War Birds of America
http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/

National Association of Flight Instructors
http://www.nafinet.org/

EAA Ultralights
http://www.eaa.org/ultralights/index.html

Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft Assoc.
http://www.sportpilot.org/

Young Eagles
http://www.youngeagles.org/

and there are more....... Each of these groups has its own magazine
and identity.

EAA promotes and fully supports each and every one of these
organizations. Makes sense that a soaring division of EAA would fit
nicely with these other groups.

In my opinion, SSA is just too small to efficiently manage itself
logistically and financially.

Jon B.
GA



Stan - VA wrote:
I think it is pretty clear that if the SSA survives this latest bout of
mismanagment that our dues will mainly go to debt payment, and not to
services for members.

Several of us at our club have considered the pros and cons of the AOPA
idea. It definitely is worth discussing.

The AOPA has some real lobbying power. If the SSA ever had any, it
won't now. The amount of $ SSA had, has, or will have to spend on
lobbying efforts probably won't even open the door for us with anyone
in Washington. AOPA's clout is another matter.

I don't know that the AOPA would be interested, but 16,000 pilots would
be a healthy addition to their membership, if that is what the SSA
membership is. Of course, some SSA are already AOPA members.

A couple of pages monthly in the AOPA magizine would probably do
soaring a world of good. Most of the potential pilots for our sport
are already power pilots.

AIG, the insurer who underwrites the policies that come from
Costello's, already has a relationship with the AOPA. Probably
Costello's has a relationship with the AOPA too. Hopefully, we
maintain our insurance in its present form.

Let's face the reality of the situation. We may soon have no national
soaring umbrella organization. We will need to deal with that in some
fashion. Better to think about the alternatives now.

Stan Scott - VA

Tony Verhulst wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote:
We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.

Would we receive any notice inside AOPA? No! Not even inside EAA nor
even NAFI. Case in point, I used to be a NAFI (National Association of
Flight Instructors) member. In one of their monthly (mailed) newsletters
(2002), they warned us that the PTS (practical Test Standard)was
changing and to make sure that we trained our students to the new
standards. When I researched the matter I discovered that ONLY the
*airplane* PTS was changing - not glider, not helicopter, ... you get
the picture. I wrote a nice letter to the organization president and
editor explaining the situation and requested a public clarification. I
got nowhere - not even a clarification in their online newsletter which
would have cost them nothing to distribute. After several polite email
exchanges, I realized that unless you were an airplane instructor you
were nothing and that there was no point in me being a member. I
resigned in protest.

Expect similar treatment if we become part of AOPA.

Tony V. CFIG
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING

I guess we need to agree on what "better" means.
Size vs. influence?
We would have a 14K ceiling (Class A) for the past two decades without the
AOPA.

- Béla


------Original Message-----
-From: Glider Pilot Network ]
-Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:06 PM
-To: Bela Szalai
-Subject: [r.a.s] Important message for SSA members
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
-Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring
-Subject: Important message for SSA members
-Author:
-Date/Time: 20:00 07 September 2006
-------------------------------------------------------------
-If SSA were to merge with a larger organization, EAA would be
-better suited than AOPA. The EAA already has a number of
-Divisions & Affiliates under its umbrella, including:
-
-International Aerobatic Club
-http://www.iac.org/
-
-Vintage Aircraft Association
-http://www.vintageaircraft.org/
-
-War Birds of America
-http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/
-
-National Association of Flight Instructors http://www.nafinet.org/
-
-EAA Ultralights
-http://www.eaa.org/ultralights/index.html
-
-Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft Assoc.
-http://www.sportpilot.org/
-
-Young Eagles
-http://www.youngeagles.org/
-
-and there are more....... Each of these groups has its own
-magazine and identity.
-
-EAA promotes and fully supports each and every one of these
-organizations. Makes sense that a soaring division of EAA
-would fit nicely with these other groups.
-
-In my opinion, SSA is just too small to efficiently manage
-itself logistically and financially.
-
-Jon B.
-GA
-
-
-
-Stan - VA wrote:
- I think it is pretty clear that if the SSA survives this latest bout
-of
- mismanagment that our dues will mainly go to debt payment,
-and not to
- services for members.
-
- Several of us at our club have considered the pros and cons of the
- AOPA idea. It definitely is worth discussing.
-
- The AOPA has some real lobbying power. If the SSA ever had any, it
- won't now. The amount of $ SSA had, has, or will have to spend on
- lobbying efforts probably won't even open the door for us
-with anyone
- in Washington. AOPA's clout is another matter.
-
- I don't know that the AOPA would be interested, but 16,000 pilots
- would be a healthy addition to their membership, if that is what the
- SSA membership is. Of course, some SSA are already AOPA members.
-
- A couple of pages monthly in the AOPA magizine would probably do
- soaring a world of good. Most of the potential pilots for our sport
- are already power pilots.
-
- AIG, the insurer who underwrites the policies that come from
- Costello's, already has a relationship with the AOPA. Probably
- Costello's has a relationship with the AOPA too. Hopefully, we
- maintain our insurance in its present form.
-
- Let's face the reality of the situation. We may soon have
-no national
- soaring umbrella organization. We will need to deal with
-that in some
- fashion. Better to think about the alternatives now.
-
- Stan Scott - VA
-
- Tony Verhulst wrote:
- Nyal Williams wrote:
- We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you believe
- that, comprising 1% of the pilot population, we would
-receive any
- notice inside AOPA? Maybe one page near the back of the
-magazine
- -- occasionally.
-
- Would we receive any notice inside AOPA? No! Not even
-inside EAA nor
- even NAFI. Case in point, I used to be a NAFI (National Association
-of
- Flight Instructors) member. In one of their monthly (mailed)
- newsletters (2002), they warned us that the PTS (practical Test
- Standard)was changing and to make sure that we trained our
-students
- to the new standards. When I researched the matter I
-discovered that
- ONLY the
- *airplane* PTS was changing - not glider, not helicopter, ... you
- get the picture. I wrote a nice letter to the organization
-president
- and editor explaining the situation and requested a public
-clarification.
-I
- got nowhere - not even a clarification in their online newsletter
- which would have cost them nothing to distribute. After several
- polite email exchanges, I realized that unless you were an
-airplane
- instructor you were nothing and that there was no point in
-me being
- a member. I resigned in protest.
-
- Expect similar treatment if we become part of AOPA.
-
- Tony V. CFIG
- http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING
-
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
-

Well,
We have to consider really what SSA does for us- everyone mentions
the big stuff like plane insurance and lobbying, and the clout of AOPA
or EAA would be good there. I just think that these organizations
already have their own inertia to deal with. I doubt pursuits like
Badge / Record Claims, Sporting code changes, sailplane handicaps,
conventions, or contest management would be of any interest to them,
and that is our bread and butter.
I have been thru some corporate mergers and the sum is rarely as
effective as the parts were beforehand. Technically, it seems marrying
these groups would create something better- unfortunately, we are
dealing with folks that can't even get our books straight. Could we
trust them to keep SSA's identity and unique needs seperate and
healthy? I doubt it.
We already have an organization that does this other stuff fairly
well. We need to change the organization to make it more accountable
and less incestuous. Smaller can be better, it just has to be done
right. There is enough in SSA to save, and we don't have to do it all
tomorrow.

Just curious- How long have our dues been 55 clams? Might be time for
Mo' Money anyway. For some reason we expect to get out of a money jam
without raising taxes. Sometimes ya gotta do it.

Joe in Georgia USA
CN Open Cirrus #105


wrote:
If SSA were to merge with a larger organization, EAA would be better
suited than AOPA. The EAA already has a number of Divisions &
Affiliates under its umbrella, including:

International Aerobatic Club
http://www.iac.org/

Vintage Aircraft Association
http://www.vintageaircraft.org/

War Birds of America
http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/

National Association of Flight Instructors
http://www.nafinet.org/

EAA Ultralights
http://www.eaa.org/ultralights/index.html

Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft Assoc.
http://www.sportpilot.org/

Young Eagles
http://www.youngeagles.org/

and there are more....... Each of these groups has its own magazine
and identity.

EAA promotes and fully supports each and every one of these
organizations. Makes sense that a soaring division of EAA would fit
nicely with these other groups.

In my opinion, SSA is just too small to efficiently manage itself
logistically and financially.

Jon B.
GA



Stan - VA wrote:
I think it is pretty clear that if the SSA survives this latest bout of
mismanagment that our dues will mainly go to debt payment, and not to
services for members.

Several of us at our club have considered the pros and cons of the AOPA
idea. It definitely is worth discussing.

The AOPA has some real lobbying power. If the SSA ever had any, it
won't now. The amount of $ SSA had, has, or will have to spend on
lobbying efforts probably won't even open the door for us with anyone
in Washington. AOPA's clout is another matter.

I don't know that the AOPA would be interested, but 16,000 pilots would
be a healthy addition to their membership, if that is what the SSA
membership is. Of course, some SSA are already AOPA members.

A couple of pages monthly in the AOPA magizine would probably do
soaring a world of good. Most of the potential pilots for our sport
are already power pilots.

AIG, the insurer who underwrites the policies that come from
Costello's, already has a relationship with the AOPA. Probably
Costello's has a relationship with the AOPA too. Hopefully, we
maintain our insurance in its present form.

Let's face the reality of the situation. We may soon have no national
soaring umbrella organization. We will need to deal with that in some
fashion. Better to think about the alternatives now.

Stan Scott - VA

Tony Verhulst wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote:
We have always wanted to be more like the BGA. Do you
believe that, comprising 1% of the pilot population,
we would receive any notice inside AOPA? Maybe one
page near the back of the magazine -- occasionally.

Would we receive any notice inside AOPA? No! Not even inside EAA nor
even NAFI. Case in point, I used to be a NAFI (National Association of
Flight Instructors) member. In one of their monthly (mailed) newsletters
(2002), they warned us that the PTS (practical Test Standard)was
changing and to make sure that we trained our students to the new
standards. When I researched the matter I discovered that ONLY the
*airplane* PTS was changing - not glider, not helicopter, ... you get
the picture. I wrote a nice letter to the organization president and
editor explaining the situation and requested a public clarification. I
got nowhere - not even a clarification in their online newsletter which
would have cost them nothing to distribute. After several polite email
exchanges, I realized that unless you were an airplane instructor you
were nothing and that there was no point in me being a member. I
resigned in protest.

Expect similar treatment if we become part of AOPA.

Tony V. CFIG
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING