End of Season Sunset Warning for SSA-OLC Participants

5Z wrote:
Marc Ramsey wrote:
lights, but it is hardly dangerous (and I know of a few people who have
installed lights for precisely this reason). In fact there are a few

So Mark, any chance of enlighetning(!) us about these installations?
I'm very interested in finding out how it was done both technically and
of course the legalities for my Standard airworthiness ASH-26E.

Actually, I understand that Schleicher is one of the companies that will
install the necessary wiring, and even provide an LED-based solution.
Just order a new one, and I'm sure they'll be happy to help you 8^)

Marc

Interesting. will these LED lights can also help the more common issue
of visibility during day time?

Ramy

Bill Daniels wrote:
"5Z" wrote in message
oups.com...

Marc Ramsey wrote:
lights, but it is hardly dangerous (and I know of a few people who have
installed lights for precisely this reason). In fact there are a few

So Mark, any chance of enlighetning(!) us about these installations?
I'm very interested in finding out how it was done both technically and
of course the legalities for my Standard airworthiness ASH-26E.

Thanks,
-Tom


There was a long thread on rec.aviation.homebuilding last year about home
made LED position lights. It turned out that the FAA specs are pretty
lenient - easily met with high-brightness LED's. The gist is that if you
met the FAA angular, brightness and color specifications, you could build
your own lights and get them signed of - at least for an experimental
airworthiness certificate.

I have seen pictures of glider winglets with red or green plastic (Plexi?)
tips that had high brightness LED's imbedded in them. Looking at the
current draw of these LED arrays it appears that a couple of "D" size
lithium batteries in each winglet would power them for 12 - 24 hours. That
would mean they could be left on for the entire flight so no in-wing wiring
or switches would be needed.

There is also a Nimbus 4DM in, I think, Argentina with an array of ultra
high brightness Luxeon white LED's on the landing gear as a landing light.
I doubt even these would actually light up a runway but they would be bright
enough to produce visible reflections from runway stripes and edge
reflectors.

Bill Daniels

Ramy wrote:
Interesting. will these LED lights can also help the more common issue
of visibility during day time?

Well, police cars and motorcycles around here are starting to use them.
I visted a couple websites that sell arrays to be mounted on an auto
sunvisor, for example. They have programmable flash patterns and come
in various colors. The specs were 1/3 to 1/2 amp current draw on the
cigarette lighter plug. But this is for fairly rapid flashing. If we
were to flash every 5-10 seconds, the draw may be reasonable.

-Tom

Under dim lighting conditions, LED position lights probably would help. In
bright noonday sun... well, it's hard to compete with the sun.

Bill Daniels

"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Interesting. will these LED lights can also help the more common issue
of visibility during day time?

Ramy

Bill Daniels wrote:
"5Z" wrote in message
oups.com...

Marc Ramsey wrote:
lights, but it is hardly dangerous (and I know of a few people who
have
installed lights for precisely this reason). In fact there are a few

So Mark, any chance of enlighetning(!) us about these installations?
I'm very interested in finding out how it was done both technically and
of course the legalities for my Standard airworthiness ASH-26E.

Thanks,
-Tom


There was a long thread on rec.aviation.homebuilding last year about home
made LED position lights. It turned out that the FAA specs are pretty
lenient - easily met with high-brightness LED's. The gist is that if you
met the FAA angular, brightness and color specifications, you could build
your own lights and get them signed of - at least for an experimental
airworthiness certificate.

I have seen pictures of glider winglets with red or green plastic
(Plexi?)
tips that had high brightness LED's imbedded in them. Looking at the
current draw of these LED arrays it appears that a couple of "D" size
lithium batteries in each winglet would power them for 12 - 24 hours.
That
would mean they could be left on for the entire flight so no in-wing
wiring
or switches would be needed.

There is also a Nimbus 4DM in, I think, Argentina with an array of ultra
high brightness Luxeon white LED's on the landing gear as a landing
light.
I doubt even these would actually light up a runway but they would be
bright
enough to produce visible reflections from runway stripes and edge
reflectors.

Bill Daniels

Night flight legally begins after twilight (not sunset). I wasn't
talking about final glides, I was talking about making long flights in
the dark using wave or ridge. Frankly, I think this would not be worth
the substantially increased risk, and we should not encourage it by
giving recognition for this. We dropped endurance records for gliding
when the records were measured in days for the same reason.

So assuming most people agree that Night X/C in gliders is not wise,
then we need to look at whether we want to encourage people to install
position lights so they can fly for a few extra minutes between sunset
and twilight. Or should we discourage this so they can spend their
money installing transponders, or other safety equipment.

Marc Ramsey wrote:
Doug Haluza wrote:
I agree that night flight withing gliding distance of a lighted airport
is not that dangerous(I would probably do it if I could). That is why I
commented specifically about night cross-country flight in gliders.
Night VFR in airplanes has been shown to be many times more dangerous
than Day VFR in the accident record. I would only expect the situation
to be worse without an engine running.

The vast majority of landings after legal sunset are the result of long
final glides that started before sunset. These are not "night
cross-country flight", except in the legal sense, and would likely have
aborted much earlier if there was doubt about reaching the destination
airport. Legally, they absolutely should be equipped with position
lights, but it is hardly dangerous (and I know of a few people who have
installed lights for precisely this reason). In fact there are a few
places (Tonopah comes to mind) where it would be more dangerous to abort
the final glide at sunset, and try to find someplace else to land, than
it would be to just continue...

Marc

For an example of good planning, see Brian Collins' article in the
February 2006 Soaring magazine.

588 wrote:
Marc Ramsey wrote:
Mike Schumann wrote:
Sounds like poor planning if you don't start your final glide early
enough to get back before sunset and you don't have lights.

We aren't all perfect, like you obviously are...


Why would planning to meet an arrival time be any more demanding than
the other planning and decision making that glider pilots do?

It's not a matter of perfection, it's a matter of priorities.


Jack

The requirements are given in AC 20-74, but I would not describe them
as "lenient - easily met." I agree that LED's could be a good solution,
but developing and testing a LED system for an aircraft installation is
not for the faint of heart. You can dowload it he
http://tinyurl.com/fm6df.

BTW, wouldnt adding position lights on the wingtips violate the span
limits for span limited classes (15m, 18m, 20m)?

Bill Daniels wrote:
"5Z" wrote in message
oups.com...

Marc Ramsey wrote:
lights, but it is hardly dangerous (and I know of a few people who have
installed lights for precisely this reason). In fact there are a few

So Mark, any chance of enlighetning(!) us about these installations?
I'm very interested in finding out how it was done both technically and
of course the legalities for my Standard airworthiness ASH-26E.

Thanks,
-Tom


There was a long thread on rec.aviation.homebuilding last year about home
made LED position lights. It turned out that the FAA specs are pretty
with high-brightness LED's. The gist is that if you
met the FAA angular, brightness and color specifications, you could build
your own lights and get them signed of - at least for an experimental
airworthiness certificate.

I have seen pictures of glider winglets with red or green plastic (Plexi?)
tips that had high brightness LED's imbedded in them. Looking at the
current draw of these LED arrays it appears that a couple of "D" size
lithium batteries in each winglet would power them for 12 - 24 hours. That
would mean they could be left on for the entire flight so no in-wing wiring
or switches would be needed.

There is also a Nimbus 4DM in, I think, Argentina with an array of ultra
high brightness Luxeon white LED's on the landing gear as a landing light.
I doubt even these would actually light up a runway but they would be bright
enough to produce visible reflections from runway stripes and edge
reflectors.

Bill Daniels

I can think of one way to make a glider more visible with an intensity
equal to the sun and draws absolutley NO POWER and requires NO WIRING

Check this out!

http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP...LH/N14LH_2.jpg

In truth the power it requires is in the buffing, but the results are
incredible.

The polish to get this is called Nuvite and costs a lot but with
outstanding results http://www.perfectpolish.com/

Who knew you could polish aluminum to the point of looking like chrome?

Circling flight would make this glider look like a flashing beacon in
the sky.

I have bare wings on my HP-11 and plan on polishing the wings up with
Nuvite for that extra visibility since my flying area is right in the
middle of a victor airway.

Ray

Doug Haluza wrote:
So assuming most people agree that Night X/C in gliders is not wise,
then we need to look at whether we want to encourage people to install
position lights so they can fly for a few extra minutes between sunset
and twilight. Or should we discourage this so they can spend their
money installing transponders, or other safety equipment.

I can see a properly equipped two seater making a 24 or more hour
flight in the Andes wave in relatively safety, as long as the pilots
figure out how to stay warm. The key would be to have enough lighted
airfields available for a safe glide.

As for another comment about lights increasing the span: I think that
with LEDs, one could flush mount several at strategic places in the
leading edge and around the wingtip.

-Tom

What kind of glider is that?

Mike Schumann

"jb92563" wrote in message
oups.com...
I can think of one way to make a glider more visible with an intensity
equal to the sun and draws absolutley NO POWER and requires NO WIRING

Check this out!

http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP...LH/N14LH_2.jpg

In truth the power it requires is in the buffing, but the results are
incredible.

The polish to get this is called Nuvite and costs a lot but with
outstanding results http://www.perfectpolish.com/

Who knew you could polish aluminum to the point of looking like chrome?

Circling flight would make this glider look like a flashing beacon in
the sky.

I have bare wings on my HP-11 and plan on polishing the wings up with
Nuvite for that extra visibility since my flying area is right in the
middle of a victor airway.

Ray