Ferrying Aircraft

The owners of any property expect to get it back. Insurance
companies set requirements. US Customs doesn't care whether
a pilot is legal." Foreign nations do care and will check
ALL paperwork on the airplane, the insurance and the pilot's
certificates.

So required might mean several things, In 1927, an
instrument rating was not required [did even exist]. In
WWII, most bomber pilots could actually fly the gauges and
fly straight and level.

Remember Flight 19, a bunch of Navy pilots got lost over/in
the waters near Florida and have not been seen since.


"Stefan" wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin schrieb:
| If you are over Kansas and the weather turns bad, you
can
| land anywhere. Over the ocean, landing spots are
further
| apart. The owner's expect that any ferry pilot can fly
IFR.
|
|
|
| "Stefan" wrote in message
| ...
| | Jim Macklin schrieb:
| |
| | Any ferry pilot going
| | over-seas needs a commercial and an instrument
rating, a
| |
| | An instrument rating is defintely not required.
| |
| | Stefan
|
|
|
| It's one question what "the owners" expect (why would you
know this,
| anyway), but it's an entirely different question what's
*required*.
|
| Stefan

Jim Macklin wrote:
If you are over Kansas and the weather turns bad, you can
land anywhere. Over the ocean, landing spots are further
apart. The owner's expect that any ferry pilot can fly IFR.

I'm not sure if its still the case but I know at one time Cessna
prohibited its factory delivery pilots from flying IFR when deliverying
planes.

-Robert

I'm not sure what you base that on. The courts have ruled that logging
free flight time is commercial and requires a commercial rating.

-Robert, CFII


Stache wrote:
wrote:

John you can use your PPL for this no special certificate is required
as long as you hold the rating as a private pilot. In some case you
may have to be instrument rated depending on the length of the flight
and weather conditions.

Stache

Jim Macklin schrieb:
The owners of any property expect to get it back. Insurance
companies set requirements. US Customs doesn't care whether
a pilot is legal." Foreign nations do care and will check
ALL paperwork on the airplane, the insurance and the pilot's
certificates.

So required might mean several things, In 1927, an
instrument rating was not required [did even exist]. In
WWII, most bomber pilots could actually fly the gauges and
fly straight and level.

Remember Flight 19, a bunch of Navy pilots got lost over/in
the waters near Florida and have not been seen since.


"Stefan" wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin schrieb:
| If you are over Kansas and the weather turns bad, you
can
| land anywhere. Over the ocean, landing spots are
further
| apart. The owner's expect that any ferry pilot can fly
IFR.
|
|
|
| "Stefan" wrote in message
| ...
| | Jim Macklin schrieb:
| |
| | Any ferry pilot going
| | over-seas needs a commercial and an instrument
rating, a
| |
| | An instrument rating is defintely not required.
| |
| | Stefan
|
|
|
| It's one question what "the owners" expect (why would you
know this,
| anyway), but it's an entirely different question what's
*required*.
|
| Stefan


You still didn't explain why an instrument rating is *required* to ferry
a plane from USA to Europe. Not surprizing, because I know several which
have been ferried to Europe with VFR-only equipment and from VFR-only
pilots. I can't present references to 1927, WW2 or the US Navy, though.

Stefan

But all the Cessna pilots were IR. The company just didn't
want them to be flying IFR.


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| If you are over Kansas and the weather turns bad, you
can
| land anywhere. Over the ocean, landing spots are
further
| apart. The owner's expect that any ferry pilot can fly
IFR.
|
| I'm not sure if its still the case but I know at one time
Cessna
| prohibited its factory delivery pilots from flying IFR
when deliverying
| planes.
|
| -Robert
|

Apply for a job as a ferry pilot and if you don't have at
least a commercial and instrument rating, the insurance
company will "require" you to get rated.

What is required in the USA may or may not apply on a
delivery flight. If the airplane carries an "N number" USA
rules apply, but if it already has a G or D or F or what
ever. that nations rules apply.

Buy your own and fly anywhere you want, you can self-insure.
Fly somebody else's airplane and they will probably
"require" that you are a fully qualified pilot.

It really comes down to the question, is a pilot's
certificate required in order to fly an airplane? The
answer is clearly, NO. You can buy, beg or steal an
airplane and no license or insurance is "required."



"Stefan" wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin schrieb:
| The owners of any property expect to get it back.
Insurance
| companies set requirements. US Customs doesn't care
whether
| a pilot is legal." Foreign nations do care and will
check
| ALL paperwork on the airplane, the insurance and the
pilot's
| certificates.
|
| So required might mean several things, In 1927, an
| instrument rating was not required [did even exist]. In
| WWII, most bomber pilots could actually fly the gauges
and
| fly straight and level.
|
| Remember Flight 19, a bunch of Navy pilots got lost
over/in
| the waters near Florida and have not been seen since.
|
|
| "Stefan" wrote in message
| . ..
| | Jim Macklin schrieb:
| | If you are over Kansas and the weather turns bad,
you
| can
| | land anywhere. Over the ocean, landing spots are
| further
| | apart. The owner's expect that any ferry pilot can
fly
| IFR.
| |
| |
| |
| | "Stefan" wrote in message
| |
...
| | | Jim Macklin schrieb:
| | |
| | | Any ferry pilot going
| | | over-seas needs a commercial and an instrument
| rating, a
| | |
| | | An instrument rating is defintely not required.
| | |
| | | Stefan
| |
| |
| |
| | It's one question what "the owners" expect (why would
you
| know this,
| | anyway), but it's an entirely different question
what's
| *required*.
| |
| | Stefan
|
|
| You still didn't explain why an instrument rating is
*required* to ferry
| a plane from USA to Europe. Not surprizing, because I know
several which
| have been ferried to Europe with VFR-only equipment and
from VFR-only
| pilots. I can't present references to 1927, WW2 or the US
Navy, though.
|
| Stefan

Jim Macklin schrieb:
Apply for a job as a ferry pilot and if you don't have at
least a commercial and instrument rating, the insurance
company will "require" you to get rated.

What is required in the USA may or may not apply on a
delivery flight. If the airplane carries an "N number" USA
rules apply, but if it already has a G or D or F or what
ever. that nations rules apply.

Buy your own and fly anywhere you want, you can self-insure.
Fly somebody else's airplane and they will probably
"require" that you are a fully qualified pilot.

It really comes down to the question, is a pilot's
certificate required in order to fly an airplane? The
answer is clearly, NO. You can buy, beg or steal an
airplane and no license or insurance is "required."



"Stefan" wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin schrieb:
| The owners of any property expect to get it back.
Insurance
| companies set requirements. US Customs doesn't care
whether
| a pilot is legal." Foreign nations do care and will
check
| ALL paperwork on the airplane, the insurance and the
pilot's
| certificates.
|
| So required might mean several things, In 1927, an
| instrument rating was not required [did even exist]. In
| WWII, most bomber pilots could actually fly the gauges
and
| fly straight and level.
|
| Remember Flight 19, a bunch of Navy pilots got lost
over/in
| the waters near Florida and have not been seen since.
|
|
| "Stefan" wrote in message
| . ..
| | Jim Macklin schrieb:
| | If you are over Kansas and the weather turns bad,
you
| can
| | land anywhere. Over the ocean, landing spots are
| further
| | apart. The owner's expect that any ferry pilot can
fly
| IFR.
| |
| |
| |
| | "Stefan" wrote in message
| |
...
| | | Jim Macklin schrieb:
| | |
| | | Any ferry pilot going
| | | over-seas needs a commercial and an instrument
| rating, a
| | |
| | | An instrument rating is defintely not required.
| | |
| | | Stefan
| |
| |
| |
| | It's one question what "the owners" expect (why would
you
| know this,
| | anyway), but it's an entirely different question
what's
| *required*.
| |
| | Stefan
|
|
| You still didn't explain why an instrument rating is
*required* to ferry
| a plane from USA to Europe. Not surprizing, because I know
several which
| have been ferried to Europe with VFR-only equipment and
from VFR-only
| pilots. I can't present references to 1927, WW2 or the US
Navy, though.
|
| Stefan


The OP didn't ask what it takes to get a job, but what is required to
ferry fly a plane. Did it ever come to your mind that all owners are not
equal? Besides, VFR pilots *are* "fully qualified pilots". Fully
qualified to fly in VMC, be it locally or intercontinentally.

Stefan

Same thing for Piper...no night or IFR. I had to leave a plane in Baton
Rouge due to extensive low ceilings and go back to get it a week later.

Bob Gardner

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jim Macklin wrote:
If you are over Kansas and the weather turns bad, you can
land anywhere. Over the ocean, landing spots are further
apart. The owner's expect that any ferry pilot can fly IFR.

I'm not sure if its still the case but I know at one time Cessna
prohibited its factory delivery pilots from flying IFR when deliverying
planes.

-Robert

I don't have a FAR/AIM here, but I do seem to remember there are a
number of exceptions that allow things such as ferrying planes, flying
around political candidates, and humanitarian work such as delivering
patients. Correct me if I'm wrong.



Robert M. Gary wrote:
I'm not sure what you base that on. The courts have ruled that logging
free flight time is commercial and requires a commercial rating.

-Robert, CFII


Stache wrote:
wrote:

John you can use your PPL for this no special certificate is required
as long as you hold the rating as a private pilot. In some case you
may have to be instrument rated depending on the length of the flight
and weather conditions.

Stache

Stefan wrote:

Any ferry pilot going
over-seas needs a commercial and an instrument rating, a

An instrument rating is defintely not required.

it is required if you intend to fly above 6000 feet
in the NAT region; some states (Canada and Denmark --
for Groenland -- if I am not mistaken) requires instrument
rating to fly the portion of NAT region under their
jurisdiction; See Advisory Circular 91-70 as
a good starting point.

Note that I haven't done it yet, but it's on my list of
things to do before I die ;-)

--Sylvain