Get-Home-Itis, Arrogance, or What?

Ron Snipes wrote:

Fuel similar in color to automotive fuel was found in both wing fuel tanks,
and in the carburetor. The fuel selector handle was found in the on
position. The engine crankshaft was rotated by hand at the propeller, which
remained attached, and valvetrain continuity was confirmed. Compression was
obtained on all cylinders, except for cylinder number 3, which was dislodged
from the crankcase. The impact damaged magneto leads were cut from the
magnetos, and rotation of both magnetos produced spark on all towers. The
spark plugs exhibited normal wear, and their electrodes were black in color.


I haven't read too many of these reports so this may be just standard
stuff, but it seems odd to me. They already determined the wings came
off in flight, why does it mater if the engine quit or not. The end
result would have still been the same.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

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Marc Adler wrote:

Sorry for the stupid question, but how on earth is this possible? Can't
you tell if you're upside down or not? Or is it like being deep
underwater?

The way it was explained to me once is you have your own instrumentation
in your head that is similar to the attitude indicator in an airplane.
However it has to reset it's self quite frequently or it sends your
brain wrong information. When you are flying in the clouds, with out a
visual indication of what is up and down, your internal attitude
indicator gets out of calibration in just a few minutes or less (can't
remember how long). Then regardless of the feel of g force which could
be in any direction when flying, your now out of calibration internal
attitude indicator keeps telling your brain what it thinks is up which
is most likely wrong.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

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ktbr wrote:
T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:


If you think it's useless, what is the point of the training
then?


Please show me where I stated that this training was useless.
I never stated that it was useless, only that 3 hours of this
training was insufficient to save someone from the situation
that the pilot of the 152 encountered in that incident.


If it is insufficient for that, it sounds pretty useless to me.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

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When we were kids, we all used to spin around until we were "dizzy". Trying
then to walk straight ahead and upright, when you can actually SEE the
(real) horizon, is nearly impossible. The confused disorientation of a
"tumbled" inner ear is almost overpowering. I'm in the middle of my
instrument training. I haven't experienced true spacial disorientation, but
I can guess from the above experience, that it will be very easy to lose it
in hard IMC. The thought makes me concentrate very carefully on those
needles.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
Jose wrote:

This is one of the first things one must learn in instrument flying -
trust the instruments over your inner ear. They are less likely to be
lying to you.

When someone hasn't experienced true IMC, this is hard to
understand. Referring to it as "your inner ear" makes it
seem like there's some inner instrument that you can just
ignore and use the aircraft instruments instead. In fact,
that "inner ear" is yourself. You KNOW FOR A FACT that you
are turning right when the AI says you are turning left.
You have to do what you know is WRONG because those damn
instruments are telling you to and you know that doing the
wrong thing can kill you. It's definitely tough, but it can
be learned.
--
Do not spin this aircraft. If the aircraft does enter a spin it will
return to earth without further attention on the part of the aeronaut.

(first handbook issued with the Curtis-Wright flyer)

On 2006-09-22, wrote:

It shoudl be *required* that every VFR pilot experience actual IMC in
the three hours as part of their VFR training, to recognize and see the
real dangers of IMC.

And isn't it amazing how you can be under the hood, fat and happy, then
enter a cloud and get disoriented?

he not purposely focused on the intruments, he wouldn't have know which
way was up. Never mind trying to handle the controls, it was
overwhelming just experiencing it.

Which is why the instrument rating is so rewarding. You start out barely
able to fly under the hood and by the end you fly while experiencing
multiple instrument failures during an approach.

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD

http://www.ben.com/

Chris W schrieb:

I haven't read too many of these reports so this may be just standard
stuff, but it seems odd to me. They already determined the wings came
off in flight, why does it mater if the engine quit or not. The end
result would have still been the same.

Sometimes the obvious is not the whole story or even simply wrong. It's
essential to adhere to established procedures in investigations as well
as in the cockpit.

Stefan

The vestibular system won't detect a roll rate of around 2 degrees per
second. So, he could have found himself (or perceived himself) inverted,
and tried to pull rather than roll to upright. Another scenario is a
graveyard spiral, and again, a hard pull could over g the airplane. We'll
probably never know.

This is not so much an issue of how he dealt with the situation, but the
decision making process that lead him to take off into poor or deteriorating
weather. Again, it comes back to training and judgment.

wrote in message
oups.com...
It shoudl be *required* that every VFR pilot experience actual IMC in
the three hours as part of their VFR training, to recognize and see the
real dangers of IMC.

One reason that IMC isn't even required for an instrument rating (let alone
for a private pilot certificate) is that (benign) IMC is rare in many parts
of the country. In those places, an IMC requirement would make it all but
impossible to become a pilot.

--Gary

"ktbr" wrote in message
...
I wonder how many PP sans IFR rating actually
have practiced simulated instrument flying and unusyal
attitudes since their checkride?

Good question. I think all pilots should, if nothing else, regularly
practice instrument flying on a PC sim.

Even good instrument rated pilots
(the best ones) set personal minimums until they gain a certain
number of hours of instrument flying to gain confidence....
To maintain instrument
currency you are required to fly approaches, holding
patterns and so forth every six months (and that's bare minimum).
If you are doing 10 minutes every 2 years during BFR you
are a potential statistic.

That's not a valid comparison. Instrument-rated pilots need that much recent
experience primarily in order to fly approaches. (And the personal minima
chiefly address how low the ceiling and visibility can be for an approach.)
No one expects a non-instrument pilot to fly approaches or holds, or even to
multi-task well enough to do much navigation in IMC. Emergency preparedness
for accidental IMC encounters only involves enough skill to keep the plane
upright while maintaining some approximate heading and altitude until VMC is
found.

--Gary

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:47:46 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote in
:

wrote in message
roups.com...
It shoudl be *required* that every VFR pilot experience actual IMC in
the three hours as part of their VFR training, to recognize and see the
real dangers of IMC.

One reason that IMC isn't even required for an instrument rating (let alone
for a private pilot certificate) is that (benign) IMC is rare in many parts
of the country. In those places, an IMC requirement would make it all but
impossible to become a pilot.


Wouldn't a requirement for IMC operation for a Private certificate
make it impossible for a CFI to recommend a student for examination?
If such a requirement were in effect, a CFII could be necessary.