what exactly constitutes a troll?

I finally researched and found the answer -
partly elsewhere

So what was the answer?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
[...]
I can recall being labeled a troll. I was trying to figure
out why my glider's oxy tank got hot when it was filled.
Every pilot I spoke to said it was because the oxy was being
"compressed" That just makes no sense. You start with a
high pressure fill tank and my empty oxy tank, connect the
two together and let the oxy that was at high pressure in
the fill tank, expand to fill the increased volume defined
by the fill tank volume plus the empty tank volume. That
seems like it should cause cooling due to expansion, not
heating due to compression.

Well, that hardly seems fair. You post a perfectly interesting question,
without sharing the answer?

I'm not entirely swayed by your reasoning that it can't be due to
compression because the gas is expanding. It seems to me that tack ignores
the fact that the tank being filled *does* have gas inside it that is being
compressed. The gas coming in should get cooler while the gas already in
should get hotter. The net could go either way as far as I can tell.

Your hint implies that energy not used in the transfer (to run a windmill,
for example) must be expended some other way (as heat, for example). But to
me that ignores the fact that the energy IS actually being used in the form
of the velocity of the transfer (the windmill would extract energy and
reduce the velocity).

Of course, the gas moving at a high velocity has to slow down eventually,
once in the other tank. Was your conclusion that it was this reduction in
velocity that resulted in the increase in temperature?

I'm not saying your conclusion is incorrect, but you haven't posted enough
information to explain it (that is, we don't even know what the conclusion
was, never mind the method used to arrive at it). Unfortunately, you also
have already posted too much information for the curious among us to just
let it go.

Pete

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:

The problem with him is that he asks a seemingly good question then when
he
is answered by someone knowledgeable in the subject he argues that the
answer is wrong based on either his experience with MSFS or just his on
preconceived notions.

This is a fair comment - he is argumentative, but that label
can apply to many here :-) He does tend to argue based on
his understanding, which is often wrong and often based on
his flight sim experience, but the point is that he does it
because he believes in his position, not because he's trying
to be a troll and merely stir up argument. I suspect that
what most object to is his style of questioning, coupled
with some natural defensiveness of a sim pilot under attack
in a pilot forum.

I can recall being labeled a troll. I was trying to figure
out why my glider's oxy tank got hot when it was filled.
Every pilot I spoke to said it was because the oxy was being
"compressed" That just makes no sense. You start with a
high pressure fill tank and my empty oxy tank, connect the
two together and let the oxy that was at high pressure in
the fill tank, expand to fill the increased volume defined
by the fill tank volume plus the empty tank volume. That
seems like it should cause cooling due to expansion, not
heating due to compression.

Anyway, since no pilots knew the answer, I figured scuba
enthusiasts could explain it, so I went to a scuba group
where they deal with tank filling more than we do. Guess
what - the majority of them thought it was due to
compression too. They kept explaining air compressors and
referring to the gas laws.

I tried to explain calmly why that couldn't be right since
we were dealing with expansion, not compression. We weren't
looking at compressors, and the gas laws they quoted didn't
define the answer (mostly they had the wrong volumes
defined). They got hotter and hotter and started labeling
this newcomer as a troll, insisting that they were trained
in this, had instructors ratings, etc and they knew the
answer. Pretty soon they were ganging up, saying how no
one should discuss this any more, since I was so thick
headed, not a diver (not true) and just trying to troll for
more dispute. I finally researched and found the answer -
partly elsewhere, but mostly from an astute comment by a
physicist who liked to dive (Could you run a windmill
generator on the flow between the two tanks - what happens
to the energy you could extract if you don't extract it?) .

Perhaps I became a bit defensive, perhaps I stated my point
with more vigor than I should have used against some who
seemed particularly dense, but my point is just that a
different viewpoint from an outsider does not a troll make.



--
Rule books are paper - they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and
metal.

- Ernest K. Gann, 'Fate is the Hunter.'

On the issue of the O2 tank, I must admit that I still don't quite
understand. Intuitively, when filling a smaller tank from a larger one and
with both starting at the same temperature, I would expect the cooling due
to expansion of the gas from the larger tank to offset the heating due to
compression in the smaller tank being filled. I would have first expected
both tanks to end at the starting temperature; but I can also understand how
the source tank might end up cooler and the tank being filled might end up
warmer, in inverse relationship to their volumes, so that the added warmth
of the smaller tank might be more noticeable. Conservation of energy would
explain that much. However, if the difference was great, then I don't
understand the reason--but simply accept the observation pending further
data.

On the original subject of the thread. I have not personally tried any of
the PC sims since just after the 8080 days. However, in the old days, with
the very first MSFS, I seem to recall that the field of view was
approximately 90 degrees (or 45 degrees each side of center) for each screen
and the "camera" could be panned in either 90 degree or 45 degree increments
(I have forgotten which) to obtain a 360 degree view. Thus, with a single
monitor, it was extremely difficult to accurately simulate VFR operation of
a real aircraft. However, it is reputed to be a very credible IFR procedure
simulator; and can I've also been told that it is an acceptable substitute
for the old link trainers when a little turbulence is added and the
stability is reduced. In addition, millions of youths have proven that it
can be flown visually--and is acrobatic when treated as a video game--but
the cues are radically different from an aircraft and could even be a source
of really dangerous bad habits for a pilot (such as only looking straight
ahead).

So, I really don't know why Mxsmanic says he won't take a familiarization
flight. But remember that this is Usenet, and some of the inhabitants are
unusually large or small, or have other physical limitations. Therefore, I
reserve judgment.

Peter

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Yoopers are from upper Michigan, trolls from lower Michigan.

That is because trolls live "below the bridge".
The bridge connects the UP from the LP. :-)

I grew up in Wisconsin. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Jon Kraus wrote:

as opposed to an uppie?

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:


A native of lower Michigan.


I think that is a yooper, not an uppie. :-)



Yoopers are from upper Michigan, trolls from lower Michigan.

Correct. That is why I was correcting uppie to yooper.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Jon Kraus wrote:

as opposed to an uppie?

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:


A native of lower Michigan.


I think that is a yooper, not an uppie. :-)



Yoopers are from upper Michigan, trolls from lower Michigan.

Correct. That is why I was correcting uppie to yooper.


You said a native of lower Michigan was a yooper, not an uppie. That's not
correct.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


Jon Kraus wrote:


as opposed to an uppie?

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:



A native of lower Michigan.


I think that is a yooper, not an uppie. :-)



Yoopers are from upper Michigan, trolls from lower Michigan.

Correct. That is why I was correcting uppie to yooper.



You said a native of lower Michigan was a yooper, not an uppie. That's not
correct.

No, I said no such thing. A previous poster made the lower Michigan
comment. I commented to the poster that made the uppie comment. That
fact that he top-posted isn't my problem.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

No, I said no such thing. A previous poster made the lower Michigan
comment. I commented to the poster that made the uppie comment. That
fact that he top-posted isn't my problem.


Yes, you did. Your statement, "I think that is a yooper, not an uppie.
:-)", immediately follows the statement, "A native of lower Michigan." You
are responsible for the content and format of what you post, don't blame
anyone else.

Have you considered that he may come across as annoying because
of different cultural background? when I moved to USA it took
me a while to pick up the clues as to what was ok and what was
not in a conversation, and I had the advantage of a) having
travelled / lived in different countries before -- so I should
have known better about different sensitivities, and b) interacting
with people in person rather than over the net (which masks out
all non verbal clues); The other thing is that he might be also
quite young; teenagers can be really annoying even when they
don't mean to be :-) it eventually wears off (with most people) :-)

--Sylvain

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:
The problem with him is that he asks a seemingly good question then when
he is answered by someone knowledgeable in the subject he argues that the
answer is wrong based on either his experience with MSFS or just his on
preconceived notions. Add to that his experience with MSFS isn't even
complete because he hasn't even gone through the tutorials that come with
it.

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
and not evil minded. One of his more bizarre character traits is that
he prefers simulations as a surrogate for real life;

I know quite a few people who use simulations as a surrogate for
real life, and not necessarily by choice but for the simple
reason that real life is not physically accessible to them; we
don't know anything about this guy (and about most other
participants to newsgroups for that matter)...

besides I have a natural tendency to root for the underdogs rather
than the mob, but may be is it just me :-)

--Sylvain