NW_Pilot's Trans-Atlantic Flight -- All the scary details...

Dylan Smith wrote:
On 2006-10-02, Jay Honeck wrote:

Funny as that may be, Steven *was* very cognizant of how he wrote this
story up, for fear of being flamed by certain members of this group.


Ever since Steven Ames got flamed to a charbroiled crisp over a loose
formation flight (with a CFI as the wing man), I've always had to resist
the temptation to post about the flight of four we did consisting of a
Cessna 140, Cessna 170, Grumman Tiger and Beech Bonanza. So far I've
resisted because I think I'd be trolling if I did that :-)


Go ahead and post. I can vouch for the credentials of at least 2 of the
wingmen.. I'm tryin to figure out who #4 was...

Dave

On 2006-10-06, Dave S wrote:
Dylan Smith wrote:
Ever since Steven Ames got flamed to a charbroiled crisp over a loose
formation flight (with a CFI as the wing man), I've always had to resist
the temptation to post about the flight of four we did consisting of a
Cessna 140, Cessna 170, Grumman Tiger and Beech Bonanza. So far I've
resisted because I think I'd be trolling if I did that :-)


Go ahead and post. I can vouch for the credentials of at least 2 of the
wingmen.. I'm tryin to figure out who #4 was...

I was actually #4 in the Bonanza. We put the slowest plane first :-)
Keiran Smart was in the Tiger. I'm not sure who was in the 170 though!

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On 2006-10-06, Mxsmanic wrote:
Neil Gould writes:

I think its reasonable to think that some of the G1000's wiring or the
unit itself was damaged during this hack.

That would not generally cause software reboots.

Unless, of course, it was the power wiring. I suspect a momentary power
interruption could reboot a G1000. There's not much you can do about
that either (short of stuffing a 20 farad supercapacitor in the back of
the device or a fully fledged UPS).

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Recently, NW_Pilot posted:

Well, this is Usenet and I think that if it was really a garmin
rep/engineer why would they hide themselves with a hotmail account!

It will take a lot for Garmin to win my opinion and respect of them
and their products/systems if ever. Due to maybe a software flaw in
their system it could have taken my life or someone else's and
probably will take a someones in the future lets hope it's not mine.

Your experience sounds to me more like a hardware problem than software.
For example, the continuous rebooting may be caused by an intermittent
ground connection to the G1000, causing its power to switch on and off.
Given that the panel was "hacked" by the same outfit that made the poorly
kludged aux tank system (a system that clearly does have a major design
flaw) and gave you the bogus operating instructions, I am far more
suspicious of them than Garmin. The G1000 was only the most obvious
indicator of a major problem somewhere in the aircraft.

I have also been in contacted by an aviation publication about my
experience on the G1000 not sure if I want to do the interview or
not? I know I should just to expose that there maybe a potential
fatal bug/flaw in the system!

If it were me, I wouldn't do such an interview, as there is no conclusion
about the real cause of the problems you experienced. To point the finger
on the basis of pure speculation would leave you vulnerable. As can be
seen from the discussion that this has generated, inuendo can go a long
way toward creating a lasting negative impression that has no basis in
fact -- yet.

Neil

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 09:17:52 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote in
:

Given that the panel was "hacked" by the same outfit that made the poorly
kludged aux tank system (a system that clearly does have a major design
flaw) and gave you the bogus operating instructions, I am far more
suspicious of them than Garmin.

That is reasonable. With the fact that Mr. Rhine was operating
portable equipment on the flight, there is potential for some
interaction there too. And it's reasonable that a small metal shaving
produced during the Garmin installation may have been dancing on a
circuit board someplace.

Clearly we don't have enough facts to reliably diagnose the cause of
the infinite reboot, but I am thankful to be made aware by Mr. Rhine's
experience of the utterly unacceptable situation that is caused when
the Garmin system becomes inoperative.

NW_Pilot schrieb:

In the Arab desert? Ok, there's a lot more about Arabia than just desert,
I know.

Wow look at a map dude!!!!

It was a joke, dude.

Stefan

Larry Dighera schrieb:

That is reasonable. With the fact that Mr. Rhine was operating
portable equipment on the flight, there is potential for some
interaction there too.

Ah, it all boils down to interference with his cell phone!

Stefan

g1000_eng writes:

1) All avionics software implements internal isolation to prevent one
part of the system from taking down another part.

Except the G1000, apparently.

2) A faulty fuel reading cannot cause the system to reboot. In addition
to testing every possible faulty fuel value, I've tested every
combination of faulty sensor readings related to this thread and am
unable to get anything out of the ordinary to happen.

Since the system did reboot, there is obviously a combination of
circumstances that will cause it to reboot. It should never reboot.

3) When the system reboots due to a software error, a very obvious
message with a very obvious color is displayed on the screen prior to
the reboot. Was this seen? I have seen no mention of it.

How does an obvious message help?

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John Theune writes:

And I would not expect a engineer from Garmin to use his real name and
email address because as a engineer I doubt he is authorized to speak
for the company.

I wouldn't expect him to use a pseudonym that creates the impression
that he is an engineer, either. Most companies have policies that
prohibit such behavior, because of liability issues.

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NW_Pilot writes:

I have also been in contacted by an aviation publication about my experience
on the G1000 not sure if I want to do the interview or not? I know I should
just to expose that there maybe a potential fatal bug/flaw in the system!

Go for it. There's no better way to keep vendors conscientious than
bad press. And it's the sort of thing that pilots need to know before
they fly with the equipment themselves.

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