How much do you trim?

On 2006-10-10, Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:
Heh heh... I must have done it four or five times before the pilot caught on.
G Lucky for me, there was no ejection seat in the C-172.

You are only a student in evil tricks, I'm afraid :-)

When doing hood time for my instrument rating, I tended to do all the
training at night, since it simulates IMC better when under the hood -
no sunlight cues to tip you off.

At this point I had ILS approaches nailed - I could keep the needles in
the donut in the middle of the instrument. I was really proud on how I
could make it look like the instrument wasn't even functional.

My safety pilot - let's call him Paul because that's his real name and I
don't want to protect the guilty - gave me lots of aggro that night in
the name of training, but his best one was on the ILS.

Passing the outer marker, I made the customary power and pitch changes
and began to follow the glideslope. Then the plane started drifting
high. So I corrected. Then it drifted low. I just couldn't nail the
glideslope whatever I did. I was getting more and more distracted by
this, when two lights shone through that bit of the windscreen the hood
doesn't quite block, convincing my sense of balance that we were now in
a 60 degree bank. Not only was I fighting spatial disorientation, I was
all over the place on the glideslope, and now started to go all over the
place on the localiser. At the decision height I was so glad to whip the
hood up - I was starting to get overloaded.

We did the missed approach, and flew home.

When we were taxiing in, I grumbled about how terrible the ILS was - and
how I couldn't figure out how I'd flown it so badly. Paul did not say a
word. He just slid his seat back then forwards! The seat rails in a C172
are very long, so he could move an awful long way fore and aft - and
he's quite a big guy...

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Dylan,

Is pay really that low in France?


You really need to read the other threads involving the guy. Pay is not
that low in France. One only needs to work.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

approximation. In real life, from what I understand, the controls
would actually be in a different position, assuming that they are
mechanically linked to the control surfaces.

How would the controls be linked if they were not mechanically done so???
Osmosis?????

In the real world, everything is connected mechanically in some manner,
shape or form.

Ya know, a trip to your local GA airport will answer this question on REAL
PLANES and you don't even have to leave the ground instead of playing on
the game MSFS.

Allen

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
B A R R Y writes:

Oh that's right... Your simulator doesn't have control pressure.

It has springs, which serve much the same purpose. It's tiring to
hold the controls against a spring, too.


The springs in your joystick just center the stick.

MSFS has a reasonable simulation of trim you should be able to trim the
aircraft to the point it will fly straight and level with the joystick
centered.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Robert Chambers writes:

The discussion of trim in a flight sim on a PC is academic.

Hardly. Trim does the same thing on a simulator that it does in real
life.

In an aircraft, trim is not so much a "convenience" as you seem
to think.

A lot of aircraft and pilots seem to do without it, so obviously it is
not necessary.

--

No really they don't. Elevator trim is taught during your first lesson for
your Private certificate.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Robert M. Gary writes:

I don't think its a waste of time. Most FBOs offer a $49 intro ride.

Two days' wages for me. And there's still no way to get out to the
airport. And this is France, so you can multiply all costs by a
factor of 3 to 10.

Its usually around 20 minutes and if you get a 1/2 way good instructor
you will be on the controls most of the time.

Twenty minutes is not worth $49.

If you're in Sacramento, I can take you up on a 20 minute intro ride
for the $49 intro price. We'd fly out over the "naked place" (nudist
place) and do some basic turning and climbing to get a feel for the
plane. $49 is probably about what you paid for the software.

But I can use the software for a lot longer than 20 minutes.

--

If you really have this much interest in real aircraft $49 would be worth
every penny even if it was for less than 20 minutes. Since you don't have
interest in real aircraft would you please take the crap back over to the
sim group.

Well not in the A320 that you are a pilot in but in the toy airplanes
most of us fly - yes, they are mechanically linked to the control surfaces.

Mxsmanic wrote:
cjcampbell writes:


You should be able to take your hands off the controls without the
airplane changing attitude. You set your pitch and then trim to hold it
there. You should never have to use more than two fingers to control
the plane.


The closest I can come in a sim is to keep the plane trimmed so I
don't have to move the joystick, but I guess that's a useful
approximation. In real life, from what I understand, the controls
would actually be in a different position, assuming that they are
mechanically linked to the control surfaces.

mike regish wrote:
If you can't let go of the stick without starting to climb or descend, you
need it. This is the thing I always had trouble with in sims, especially
with a cheap stick that didn't have trim on it.

Some aircraft like a 152, you could go a long time without trimming.
It's quite easy to hold pitch without even trying. Others are a
bit more demanding. I got to fly a Republic Seabee the other day.
Believe me, you want to retrim that puppy. It takes a lot of force
to hold her when she's out of trim. Other aircraft it's a convenience.

And I can tell you, I got used to the electric trim in the Navion
real fast.

Cubdriver wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:55:16 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

So how do you know when you need it?

Plane doesn't fly straight & level. Wants to lose altitude, less often
to gain altitude. Or in a climb, wants to climb at an angle
approaching stall. Or in a landing, wants to dive instead of glide.

The great thing is to be able to hold the stick so lightly that your
fingers aren't really touching it; the plane flies itself.


The thing MXMANICDEPRESSIVE won't ever see with his simulator is
how heavy the control forces will get with an out of trim aircraft.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Cubdriver wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:55:16 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

So how do you know when you need it?

Plane doesn't fly straight & level. Wants to lose altitude, less often
to gain altitude. Or in a climb, wants to climb at an angle
approaching stall. Or in a landing, wants to dive instead of glide.

The great thing is to be able to hold the stick so lightly that your
fingers aren't really touching it; the plane flies itself.


The thing MXMANICDEPRESSIVE won't ever see with his simulator is
how heavy the control forces will get with an out of trim aircraft.

I forgot to set the trim to neutral once before takeoff in a C-172
(accidently skipped over it on the checklist), with my instructor on
board... started down the runway, hit 55kts, and went to pull back to
rotate, and was like "Wow!!! This is a lot heavier than normal!!!!" kind of
like when you do touch and goes, and kind of thought to myself that my
instructor had one too many doughnuts lately... Got the plane off the
ground and climbing... Then I guess my brain was quickly rationalizing what
could cause it to be so heavy, and glanced down and saw it had a fair amount
of nose down trim (probably from the person who landed it before me), and
went "Oh Crap!!!... forgot the trim!!!", and quickly took out a bunch of the
nose down trim... :-) Was much easier to fly then. :-) You can bet I
check that now everytime before take off. :-) You don't get this
experience (how hard it is to pull the plane off the ground) in MSFS, and
same for steep turns, first time I did steep turns (in C-172) I was shocked
at how hard you have to pull on the elevator to maintain altitude, it seemed
like it was probably at least a good 10 lbs, probably more.

Reason I say it felt like when you do touch and goes, is you typically don't
have time to reset the trim during a touch and go and kind of have to
wrestle the plane off the runway and trim during the climb... Or at least I
was not taught to reset the trim during a touch and go (while rolling on the
ground), but taught to trim while climbing out, probably because if you
reset it while on the ground you actually have to look down and a lot can
happen in those few seconds you aren't looking out the windshield, and
during the climb you can trim without having to look at the trim wheel and
beside if you set it you will more than likely have to retrim on the climb
anyway.

Wade Hasbrouck
PP-ASEL
http://spaces.live.com/wadehas