North Korea's Air Force and The Bomb

Jay Honeck wrote:
The best thing about President H. Clinton
is that only a Democrat will get any cooperation from the rest of the
world.


I haven't checked lately, but I think Hillary skews more negative with
most voters than even Bush did at his lowest point.

Hilary has no chance. Zip, zero, nada.

Jay Honeck wrote:

- That tiny country (smaller than the state of Mississippi) has an air
force comprised of 1,620 combat aircraft, and 274 helicopters!

You know Jay, since neither Petersen or EAA can sell them the autogas
STC due to the U.N. sanction, most of their airforce are kind of
grounded because they can afford the fuel anymore!

-------------
We starved, he called it paradise

My God, that is heart-breaking.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You can only say "get your hand out of the cookie jar" so
many times before your kids loose all respect too.



"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
| Jay Honeck wrote:
|
| This is why I'm surprised that we've done nothing --
this is a "clear
| and present danger" and should be dealt with in some
way.
|
| you can cry wolf only so many times...
|
| --Sylvain

Thank you and welcome to the world. My father was born in
Nan King in 1904. He left when WWI started. He had many
stories about starvation and Chinese life. Food was in
short supply for everyone. Oldest boys were valued and
girls were not. He told us that during a famine the
youngest girl could go into the pot so the male children
could eat. Today, famine is caused by politics, food can be
and is transported anywhere and it is blocked by politicians
trying to purge or control their people. The English would
not import grain from America when the potato crop failed
and the Irish starved. It still goes on today in Asia and
Africa.

Soylent Green IS people. Its not just for movies, never
was.






"Richard Riley" wrote in message
...
| On 15 Oct 2006 17:23:47 -0700, "Jay Honeck"

| wrote:
|
| Since I'm tired of reading questions about the
development of
| anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought
I'd toss this
| topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.
|
| I came across this a few days ago. It's from
|
http://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Paradis.../dp/0316729663
|
| -------------
| We starved, he called it paradise
| Growing up in North Korea, Hyok Kang was surrounded by
desperate
| people who ate grass and bark before they died. Yet
pervasive
| propaganda made them feel lucky to be there.
| ----
|
| The first time I ate chocolate was when I was five years
old. My
| grandfather had relatives in Japan who were given
exceptional
| permission to visit us. They came like extraterrestrials
with their
| arms full of presents and food. I remember waving tins of
condensed
| milk and chocolate bars under my friends.. noses. I was a
horrid
| little boy. It was 1990 and I didn..t yet know what famine
was. I
| wouldn..t taste chocolate again until we escaped to China
when I was
| 13.
|
| In 1994, shortly before the death of Kim Il-sung, the
Great Leader,
| the state food distribution system began to break down.
Eventually,
| there was no more rice, no more potatoes. We moved on to
vile food
| substitutes. Weeds, of whatever kind, were boiled up and
swallowed in
| the form of soup. We picked these inedible leaves on the
edges of the
| fields or the banks of the river. The soup was so bitter
that we could
| barely keep it down.
|
| Our neighbours collected grass and tree bark .. usually
pine, or
| various shrubs. They grated the bark and boiled it up
before eating
| it. And much good it did them: their faces swelled from
day to day
| until they finally perished.
|
| Not only food was scarce. Our teachers gave each of us
collection
| quotas: maize leaves (for paper mills), copper and other
metals ..
| and, during the winter, dung for fertiliser. We had to
take six whole
| carts of faecal matter to the school, and not any old
excrement: it
| had to be human. As it was frozen .. the temperature fell
to -20C or
| -30C .. we used a pick or a hatchet to hack it from the
back of the
| rudimentary outdoor toilets by each dwelling. In extremis,
dog poo was
| tolerated as well.
|
| My mother started selling buns and pancakes in the market.
She was
| shattered by the sight of dozens of ragged urchins (some
of them
| little more than toddlers) avidly watching the customers
as they ate
| their pancakes just in case they accidentally dropped
some. Then they
| would dart forwards to pick up scraps and stuff them into
their
| mouths. Some adults, racked with hunger, beat the children
and stole
| from them.
|
| International food aid began to arrive in Onsong, our
city, near the
| border with China. For a while the children started to get
their
| strength back. But then the cadres reduced the rations.
First the
| children had to make do with soup, then with nothing.
Their faces were
| terribly thin, their cheeks were hollow and their eyes
bulged with
| hunger.
|
| The United Nations must have heard that the aid was not
being
| distributed, because an inspection was organised. The
party cadres,
| who had been alerted in advance, had rice delivered to the
schools
| from state storehouses, which were apparently far from
empty. The
| children were told to tell the UN inspectors that this
diet was
| perfectly normal. On the day of the visit there were all
kinds of
| dishes on the menu: noodles, maize soufflé. Once the UN
team set off
| again, the cadres took back everything, including all the
uneaten food
| from the tables where the children were still sitting.
|
| Hunger engulfed my little universe. The poorest children
lived on
| nothing but grass, and during class their stomachs
rumbled. After a
| few weeks their faces began to swell, making them look
well nourished.
| Then their faces went on growing until they looked as
though they had
| been inflated. Their cheeks were so puffy that they
couldn..t see the
| blackboard. Some of them were covered with impetigo and
flaking skin.
|
| My classmates started dying during the summer of 1996. One
girl spent
| her days by her dying brother..s bedside, going short
herself so that
| he would have more to eat. She died before he did.
|
| As time passed there were fewer and fewer of us sitting at
the school
| desks. Sometimes there were only about 10 in a class of
35. The
| teachers themselves no longer had enough energy to take
their classes.
| They sat shapelessly in their chairs, cane in hand, while
we repeated
| by heart lessons we had already learnt about the
childhoods of Kim
| Il-sung and his son and successor Kim Jong-il, the Dear
Leader.
|
| The famine encouraged the most selfish kinds of behaviour.
My
| grandmother sold soya dishes and soups at home, a little
trade that
| helped her to survive. I remember one father who regularly
came to my
| grandmother..s house in secret to eat his fill far from
the eyes of
| his family. Many parents left their homes in search of
food, and most
| didn..t come back.
|
| People generally died at night, and every morning we
counted five or
| six deaths in our neighbourhood. Most of them were
ordinary people,
| because neither party cadres nor policemen nor
high-ranking military
| officers suffered as a result of the famine. My father
calculated that
| the district where we lived had shrunk from 4,000 to 2,000
| inhabitants.
|
| There were empty houses everywhere. We felt as though we
were living
| in a ghost town. Nonetheless, with my boy..s eyes, I found
it all
| relatively normal. It was all I had ever known, and I
thought that
| things abroad must be pretty much the same, or worse, as
our leaders
| told us, assuring us that North Korea was ..paradise..
compared with
| other states. My belief in Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il
remained
| unshakeable.
|
| The party cadres blamed ..natural disasters.., the US and
South Korea
| for the shortages. My friends and I caught frogs and
cooked them
| skewered on bicycle spokes. We also ate grasshoppers,
which are
| delicious fried, as are dragonflies. Grilled, the flesh of
fat
| dragonflies tastes a bit like pork; but you can eat them
raw, once the
| head and wings have been removed. Sparrows and quails
ended up in the
| pot. We caught them with nets set in wooden frames. Other
birds, like
| crows, we fried on a brazier.
|
| The railway station was a hideout for abandoned children.
The shortage
| of petrol and electricity had reduced the daily rail
service to one
| departure every two weeks. So the station was filled with
people
| waiting for trains that never came. Destitute crowds slept
there night
| and day. Skeletal children wandered through the waiting
room. Some of
| them were very young: I remember kids of one or two who
couldn..t even
| stand upright. They crawled on all fours on the filthy
floor, picking
| up whatever they could with their black fingers.
|
| People gathered for a few minutes around the body of a
child who had
| just died, but lost interest almost immediately. A friend
of my
| father..s was in a unit responsible for their collection
and burial.
| He told us he never rushed to pick up dead children. He
waited until
| at least three had died before collecting their bodies
because that
| way he only had to dig a single grave. He dug rather
shallow graves so
| as not to tire himself, and then laid the little skeletons
in the
| holes, sometimes without so much as a shroud.
|
| By 1997 my school had ceased to function. I ended up
joining the gangs
| of children who stole from the market stalls. I would
distract a
| well-padded person..s attention and then my gang of five
or six would
| jump on them and grab their money. The misfortune of
others, even your
| own family, leaves you completely indifferent when you
have nothing in
| your belly. You rob ruthlessly; you would even kill.
|
| My father worked in the local lignite mine. In the autumn
of 1997 he
| asked the cadres for a change of employment. This was a
legitimate
| request, because he had worked in the mine for more than
15 years, and
| the labour had been very hard. The cadres refused.
Exasperated, my
| father hurled an ashtray through a window, and started
insulting them.
| He ended up breaking all of the cadres.. office windows,
calling them
| fat pigs.
|
| He was summoned to the penal labour colony in Onsong the
following
| week for ..re-education.., but instead he escaped to
China. After
| three months, and after saving some money, he came back to
get me and
| my mother. But he was caught, laden with sausages and
other
| foodstuffs, by border guards who wolfed down the food in
front of him
| and then beat him up. Within days he was in an overcrowded
cell in
| Onsong prison.
|
| Eventually, after contracting typhus from infected lice,
my father was
| granted provisional release on condition that he would go
back to
| prison if he recovered from the illness. Depressed, he hit
the bottle
| and one evening he suddenly started shouting at the top of
his voice:
| ..Kim Jong-il, son of a bitch . . . *******, swine!.. My
mother, in a
| panic, jammed both hands over his mouth. Our house was
under constant
| surveillance from neighbourhood informers, and this sort
of outburst
| could get us all shot.
|
| He made up his mind to smuggle us to China. For more than
a month he
| tried everything he could think of to persuade us, but my
mother
| wasn..t convinced. ..In spite of the shortages,.. she
insisted,
| ..North Korea is without a doubt one of the most
prosperous countries
| in the world!.. I told him I would rather be a beggar in
North Korea
| than follow him to China. I spouted phrases that I had
learnt at
| school: ..Let us safeguard socialism . . . I will fight to
the death
| to protect socialism and the Great Leader Kim Il-sung!..
My father
| went on insulting Kim Jong-il in the worst possible terms.
My mother
| finally yielded. In turn she tried to persuade me, the
confused
| 13-year-old. She said we would spend a year in China, no
more, and we
| would earn money and come back to North Korea.
|
| Reluctantly, I agreed. We made our getaway from home on
March 19,
| 1998, at 4am, because that was the time when my father was
under the
| least amount of surveillance. We had only the clothes on
our backs,
| because even the smallest bundle of clothing would have
looked
| suspicious. Needless to say, we did not return after a
year .. nor
| have we ever.
| ----------------------------
|

"randall g" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:56:58 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote:

I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about
how
bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government
said
Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
Americans hahahahaha...

You must have been hallucinating. Nobody in the government said anything
of the sort. In fact your President has gone out of his way to praise
Islam as a peaceful religion, which it most certainly is not.


But what do I know!!! I just keep my eyes open look, I wonder and I think
for Myself.

You also make **** up.




randall g =%^) PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

Take a look at they changed the travel Warning sine I was there in
September.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...w/tw_1764.html

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:42:03 GMT, "Crash Lander" wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
They have suffered 11
straight years of food shortages, and are able to feed themselves only
because of outside aid --

Haven't really kept up on this as I know I should, but to me, the foreign
aid should be the first thing to stop!

Well, you're posting in the wrong language, then. China is still NK's primary
supporter. The recent UN resolution basically eliminates luxury items.

And...nuclear weapons aside...all local nations want to maintain the status quo.
No one wants the repression in North Korea to end. South Korea doesn't want to
have to take care 23 million starving North Koreans nor erect a modern
infrastructure from scratch, nor does China, nor Japan, nor even the US.

You can take a look at:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../dprk-dark.htm

....and see what the challenge would be. The country that invades NK is stuck
with moving them out of the 19th Century. The UN will wring its hands, it'll
eventually figure out a way to bribe Kim to supress the nukes, but you won't
find any serious effort to oust Kim and the Party.

Ron Wanttaja

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:29:10 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote:


"randall g" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:56:58 -0700, "NW_Pilot"
wrote:

I will not believe anything the news media and government tells me about
how
bad another country is untill I see it for myself. The U.S. government
said
Beirut Lebanon is a bad place and that the "Muslims" all want to kill all
Americans hahahahaha...

You must have been hallucinating. Nobody in the government said anything
of the sort. In fact your President has gone out of his way to praise
Islam as a peaceful religion, which it most certainly is not.


But what do I know!!! I just keep my eyes open look, I wonder and I think
for Myself.

You also make **** up.

Take a look at they changed the travel Warning sine I was there in
September.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...w/tw_1764.html


Hmm. The CIA beaurocracy points out some fairly obvious potential
dangers and precautions that American travellers should be aware of, and
they would be remiss in their duty not to do so. Where specifically do
you disagree? I don't think they are making a value judgement that
Beruit is a "bad place" or that "Muslims want to kill all Americans"
which are the words you used. As a pilot I think you should be able to
use such information to manage your risk in an appropriate fashion.

Also, like I said, there have been no public statements by higher
officials (such as the President or Secretary of State) that use the
language you ascribed to the government.

No big deal. You have a fairly large dose of paranoia. Everbody in the
universe has that to some extent.




randall g =%^) PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG
http://www.telemark.net/randallg
Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at:
http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm
Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca

Jay Honeck wrote:
Since I'm tired of reading questions about the development of
anti-matter-powered Beechcraft ejection seats, I thought I'd toss this
topic onto the newsgroup's platter: North Korea.

Well, I am physically a lot closer to North Korea than you guys, and I
refuse to worry about it.

North Korea has had the bomb since the early '90s. The sixth Pakistan
test in 1994 was actually on contract for North Korea and was conducted
almost immediately after the US had extracted an agreement (in return
for a huge amount of tribute) that North Korea would stop developing
nuclear weapons.

So, really, all this is about is North Korea demanding more money to
prop up its totalitarian regime, "or we won't play nice any more."
Actually using a nuke or selling one to a terrorist group to use would
immediately result in the whole of North Korea being reduced to slag,
and they know it. Neither the US nor any other country attacked in this
manner would wait for a UN Security Council resolution. The North
Koreans would be gone, and that would be it.

As for their flight training, it is said to be awful and there are a
lot of accidents.

So far, North Korea has a series of rocket tests, with a very high
failure rate, and one atomic test that fizzled. Sounds to me like the
most North Korea's WMD scientists have to fear is their own government.

Jim Macklin wrote:
Thank you and welcome to the world. My father was born in
Nan King in 1904. He left when WWI started. He had many
stories about starvation and Chinese life. Food was in
short supply for everyone. Oldest boys were valued and
girls were not. He told us that during a famine the
youngest girl could go into the pot so the male children
could eat. Today, famine is caused by politics, food can be
and is transported anywhere and it is blocked by politicians
trying to purge or control their people. The English would
not import grain from America when the potato crop failed
and the Irish starved. It still goes on today in Asia and
Africa.

Soylent Green IS people. Its not just for movies, never
was.

One thing I can say about here in the Philippines, at least, is that
starvation is relatively rare despite the extreme poverty. Practically
every bush and plant here can be eaten. But there are some people who
are starving, even here, and some of it is political. The plight of
some of the minority tribes can be terrible.

Every day when I go into town I am accosted by small children who are
begging. These kids are controlled by gangsters who take every centavo
the kids get and then some. It is terrible. But I am not currently at
liberty to say anything more about it.