Todays Cost of getting a PPL

Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:

Same with golfing, boating, RV'ing, or any other leisure activity --
you gotta pay to play.

Yes, but some hobbies are more expensive than others. Painting and
writing are quite inexpensive, especially writing, and thus accessible
to all. Golf, yachting, sailing, and flying are very expensive
hobbies, reserved to the wealthy.

Golf - local city courses are relatively inexpensive.
Yachting & sailing - depends on the size of your boat. I used
to sail all the time. A windsurfer is relatively inexpensive,
small sailboats, the same. Powered ski boat for the lake? Again,
less expensive than a car.

Again, the term "wealth" is qualitative and not easily defined. What
you consider "wealthy" is relative to your experience and situation.

I have no money, and no time.

But you certainly have the money to pay for internet access, and
certainly have the time to continue facetious arguments and
incessant postings.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Crash Lander writes:

This makes no sense to me. Pick any group of 30 'young people'. Guaranteed
at least 28 of them will have an iPod, a car with a stereo in it that cost
about $400 more than it's worth, $400 running shoes, the latest computer
with all the bells and whistles etc, etc.

They don't buy it themselves. The money generally comes from their
parents. Most young people, if they are working at all, must take
entry-level jobs that don't necessarily pay very well.

OK, remember folks, he's in France, which, according to news reports
earlier this year, considers young workers to be disposable and
barely worth paying. Add to this the fact that flying in Europe
is expensive (relative to US and Canada) and somewhat inconvenient.

"entry-level jobs that don't necessarily pay well" is another
qualitative statement. I remember my "entry-level" job. In fact
every new position I take is "entry-level" because it's new to
me. "entry-level" salary is irrelevant due to the enormous range
of jobs available. Entry-level at McD? Or entry-level at a major
accounting firm or law firm? Or entry-level as an engineer at
Airbus, Boeing or Lockheed-Martin?

If you're going to engage in debate, it's necessary to define
criteria and parameters.

How much was your flight simulator?

About 30 euro, I think.

Then you probably have an illegal or very old copy of MSFS.

What about the computer system you run it on?

I don't own the computer I use.

Then how can you legally install and run your flight sim?
France is a signatory to the Berne Convention of 1986 regarding
intellectual property law.

It's all about priorities and managing what you have.

Sometimes it's about not having anything.

Most of us (actually, I'd estimate 99.9% of us here) have worked
and saved and made choices in order to fly. You are now whining
and indulging your self-pity. It's not pretty. Funny, but not pretty.
And you lost any and all credibility with the people around here
a long time ago.

Go whine somewhere else.

B A R R Y wrote:
Not to mention that flying is a GREAT growth experience, conversation
starter, and experience to share. One that is useful in any business
and provides some excellent "life experiences".
Heck, for a young guy, it also helps pick up chicks. G

Remember the old joke? There are N (pick any big number) of people in
a large room, and only 1 pilot. How do you determine which on is the
pilot?

Don't worry. He/she will tell you!

BucFan wrote:
snip

And there's nothing wrong with that -- but then don't come back here
and scare the bejeesus out of lurkers by trumpeting that it now costs
5-figures to get your Private. Cuz it doesn't.

I know my timeframe to finish was longer than average, and I know why also.

John:

You're not the only one with a longer timeframe. I will NEVER admit to
anyone (other than any instructor I'm working with) how long it took.
I was dealing with a novice instructor who didn't know diddly about
teaching, a school that wasn't paying attention to the progress (or
lack thereof) of students, and so on. And at the time, I didn't
know any better. The CFI had no concept of diagnosing problems,
nor correcting them. I finally had enough and asked one of the other
instructors (who I knew socially and she stopped teaching primary
students years before) -- no, I begged and pleaded -- to take me
on as a primary student. In 3 lessons she had identified all the
problems, corrected them, and had me ready for the pre-solo
checkride. Had I been able to work with her the entire time, or
if I had recognized the problem was 30% me and 70% the original CFI,
my costs would have been MUCH lower.

I took 4 years and 4 CFIs. But in my case I had funerals, surgeries,
out-of-town trips for work, being p*ssed at the original school,
and so on. There was a period of 6 months that I didn't fly at
all.

When I finally did solo, it was a non-event. It was not joyous,
it was not a big deal. I considered it nothing more than a testament
to my checkbook and my stubborness.

I'm now back in training for IR. Only this time I know *so* much more
about dealing with CFIIs and such. And I've explained to the CFII
that I learned far too many bad habits as a primary student, and she's
going to have to retrain me.

BucFan wrote:
Love the Harry Potter quote! The wait for the last book is killing me!

John

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where it
keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

With all the hype that JKR stirred up earlier this year that one of
the major characters will die, I'm betting it's Hermione.

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
Mxsmanic wrote:
If you have to "want it badly enough," that implies that something
else must be sacrificed. If it's not money (because you say that you
don't need five figures to do it), then what are you giving up to get
a license at a reasonable cost and in a reasonable time?

Oh, I swore I wasn't going to reply (so, Dudley, what do you win this
time?)

I had to give up on you. You're making too much sense :-))
Dudley

Oz Lander writes:

If you're suggesting I disclose my yearly income, and the extent of my debt
and repayments, that's hardly appropriate ...

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, and I figured you'd refuse,
although I'm not sure what the big secret is.

You earn x amount each week. You have to pay a amount on rent, b amount on
bills, c amount of groceries, d amount on petrol etc. If all of those
things add up to less than x, then you have the potential to learn to fly.

Over what period? If the margin is $50, it will take 240 weeks to pay
for your license--five years. And you'll only be able to afford to
fly for 15-20 hours a _year_.

In any case, my margin is negative, so I won't be flying any time
soon.

I've proven I can do it. Now prove to me that you can! Force everyone in
this newsgroup to have some respect for you, and do it.

Groceries come first. I tried to buy some milk and a pound cake
today, but I had to put the pound cake back, as I didn't have the
¤2.12 necessary to buy both items.

--
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Oz Lander writes:

Do you have a regular income?

Semi-regular, but since I am paid by the hour and hours vary greatly
from month to month, I don't know exactly how much I'll get. Usually
it is a few hundred euro per month.

Do you live alone or at home?

Alone.

Cell phone?

Yes, so my employer can call me.

I don't live in France, and don't know the
costs of living etc, but I'd be happy to take a confidential lookat your
current budget system, turn it upside down, turn it all around and give it
back to you in better shape than what it started in, but the trick with all
budgeting is the commitment to sticking to it no matter what. It won't work
without commitment.

At this point, it wouldn't help. My basic living expenses amount to
more than I make, and I survive mainly with the help of handouts from
relatives and friends. Not a good situation to be in when
contemplating flight lessons.

Sure, some people canb't be helped, but not very many, and I'd suggest if
you can afford internet access, there is room to move.

I can't afford my Internet access; someone else is kind enough to pay
for it for me, as I need it for work.

If your debts are all over the place, you may need to consolidate to bring
repayments down.

I can't afford to make any payments at all on my outstanding debt.

I've gone off on a tangent now, but I'm sure you get what I'm getting at.

Yes, but my situation is much more dire than what you have in mind.

--
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Oz Lander writes:

I have weeks like that too. Obviously I pay the rent. The electricity
company will be fine if I ring them and say it'll be a week late.

Every month is like that for me. Someone has to help me or it won't
all get paid, as I don't make enough on my own to pay it.

It depends what you class as necessities. As a general rule, no. I will
however buy the very cheapest option of those necessities if I have to. Why
buy Sunicrust Bakery bread when the supermarket bakery brand that's $1 a
loaf cheaper will still fill my belly just as well. Sure, it may not taste
quite as nice, but when I need some money for something, and I use 10
loaves of bread a fortnight, I have to.

I wasn't able to buy both bread and milk this evening, but I did buy
milk.

That depends what your priorities are. You don't have _nothing_.

I'm pretty close.

You obviously get enough to eat, otherwise you'd be in hospital
suffering from malnutrition, rather than posting here.

I buy food that's cheap, when I have money. Unfortunately it tends to
be high in carbohydrates.

You may _think_ you have nothing compared to what some other people
might have.

It depends on to whom you compare me, but if the person in question is
normal middle class, I have very little.

Don't worry about other
people. Just worry about yourself, and stop feeling sorry and depressed for
yourself.

Try being undepressed with no money. It doesn't work for me.

--
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Blanche wrote:
I took 4 years and 4 CFIs. But in my case I had funerals, surgeries,
out-of-town trips for work, being p*ssed at the original school,
and so on. There was a period of 6 months that I didn't fly at
all.

You aren't that unusual in that regard. Four years is long, but after
working at the flight school, it isn't that uncommon for people to have
their training interrupted by other things and for the process to go far
longer than planned. Not everyone finishes in what is thought to be the
"usual" timeframe, even if that's the optimum way, and it isn't always
due to incompetent CFIs. Other things just get in the way, despite the
best intentions.