Airbus 380

Gary,



Wow, that Alvord Desert video is huge! (113 megs)



Wayne

HP-14 "6F"

http://www.soaridaho.com/



wrote in message
oups.com...


How much fun you have has very little to do with your L/D until you
start going XC. The 2-33 climbs well and the view is pretty much the
same as it is from a glass ship. We have lots of fun here in Oregon
with our pay out winch and our 2-33s. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to
be flying a DG 1000, but all I can afford at this time is the big, fat,
ugly 2-33. If anyone wants to donate a nice glass 2-place ship to us,
we will gladly accept!

Check out our new winch launch video on my web site:

www.nwskysports.com

Out on the dry lake we get as high as 2500ft on the pay out winch, at
home on our 3000ft runway we can get as high as 1300ft in a good wind.
With no wind we can get to about 800ft, which is good enough for
landing practice

Gary Boggs

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

As soon as I find someone to sponsor my flying. Whether we like it or
not, K-21 is three or four times more expensive than K-13. Yep, I went
solo in a K-13. Yep, I could have choosen a club that used K-21 for
training. Going solo would have cost me approximately twice as much.

Your club instructors should regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be
able to pass on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

I have no doubts about their skills. Most of them actually own glass
gliders.

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

I suppose so.

Bartek (who will gladly fly anything with wood, metal or glass wings)

Just because you are in an old glider doesn't mean that you can't fly cross
country. One of our club member, Jim Hard, just finished his goal of flying
40K KM in his 1-26 this summer.

The fun of soaring is the challenge. The type of equipment you fly just
changes the challenge. It doesn't necessarily increase or reduce it.

Mike Schumann

"Jeremy Zawodny" wrote in message
...
Mike Schumann wrote:
My favorite club glider is our K-8. I love it when I'm in a tight
thermal and I'm climbing away from a DG-1000!

And I like being in the DG-1000 because I can leave the thermal and fly
both faster and farther than you before needing to thermal again. :-)

That's really just a round about way of making a related point. There's a
substantial number of glider pilots who get stuck in the gap between
taking friends for sled rides and flying cross-country in a fun and safe
manner. Getting people across that gap often helps them stick with
soaring much longer.

Jeremy

Karl Semper wrote:
A little story, but true. It actually happened to me.

I worked in Germany for several years and while over there learned to
fly gliders and got my license. When I returned to the US, I went to
the nearest glider port and was told by the instructor that he didn't
have time to help me obtain a US license. I didn't want a US license
based on the German license because of the need to obtain an physical
from a German flight surgeon. That I should go to a commercial school
and then come back and fly their 2-33. I took a ride in the 2-33 and
decided that although the newest ships that I was checked out on in
Germany was a Junior and Puchacz (trained in Bocian), that I would
find something else to do. Between the 2-33 and the instructors
attitude, I'll wait until I move someplace where the people are
friendlier. The instructors attitude was the main reason, but the 2-33
didn't help.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:46:20 +0200, Bruce Greef
wrote:

wrote:
wrote:

It WILL change, but for now I'd rather be put in a stable, forgiving
and safe glider than in a hot, slippery glass. Especially if hot glass
means higher annual/launch fees.

Bartek


OK, lets put this one to rest. Every glider I have flown that was made
since about the mid 1980s is stable, forgiving and safe. And cost less
to maintain than many older gliders.

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those. Your club instructors should
regurally fly modern glass gliders, how else will they be able to pass
on the necessary skills to the students when it is time to fly a single
seater made from glass?

If you train in a modern glass glider, transitioning to a single seat
glass glider is easy, with proper instruction. It is done in Germany
and elsewhere all the time.

Robert Mudd
Moriarty, New Mexico USA

'Nother reason to retire the things - Much as I enjoy vintage gliders, every
time I spend a weekend instructing in our wooden wonders (the 'new' one is 40
years old...) I need a while to get used to the glass again when I get back
into a very modest performance glass single seater.

Very little motivation to extend the capabilities if what you are flying manages
1:25 on a good day and has the penetration of a well thrown powderpuff.

As Robert says there are loads of well behaved glass trainers at reasonable
prices.

Karl,

You and I are not alone, there is more stories like yours. It almost
feels like saying "a typical situation".

I also agree with Robert about the glass ships....but I also will agree
with Gary about the 2-33...there is room for every glider, however the
main problem is our attitude. Be nice, be fun, be friendly, don't trash
people because of their looks, treat them as equal and people will come
from every imaginable walk of life. Just because I speak with an accent
it doesn't make me "sub-human" or worse pilot than you are. I can tell
you a story about a guy from Argentina who was asking for a flight
instructions in a club I used to be belong to in Pacific NW....but I
will not. It is shameful that we have some individuals like that
running and operating a club....and I know also that this is not unique
incident.

Jacek
Washington State

wrote:
I also agree with Robert about the glass ships....but I also will agree
with Gary about the 2-33...there is room for every glider, however the
main problem is our attitude. Be nice, be fun, be friendly, don't trash
people because of their looks, treat them as equal and people will come
from every imaginable walk of life. Just because I speak with an accent
it doesn't make me "sub-human" or worse pilot than you are. I can tell
you a story about a guy from Argentina who was asking for a flight
instructions in a club I used to be belong to in Pacific NW....but I
will not. It is shameful that we have some individuals like that
running and operating a club....and I know also that this is not unique
incident.

Jacek
Washington State

Jacek, you know what else is a shame is there is a guy who runs Bermuda
soaring which I guess is one of the biggest operators in his part of
the country, and he posts racist and derogitory remarks on RAS.It is as
if he doesnt care who he ****es off.Or maybe he thinks none of his
customers post on RAS, who knows?

Mike Schumann wrote:
Just because you are in an old glider doesn't mean that you can't fly cross
country.

In the climate and geography where I fly part of the year, it really
does--at least if you don't want to end up in a field more than 50% of
the time.

In the other locations I fly, you could go XC in a coffin on many days.
There, I completely agree with you.

Jeremy

Hi Mike,

At some point in your soaring career, I hope you do some cross-country in
the DG-1000 with Dick or Fred. It is very fun!!!

There is a lot to be said for generous owners of hot 2-seaters that let the
rest of us fly cross-country fly with them. They do a lot to encourage
soaring and cross-country in my opinion.

Not that there is anything wrong with doing cross-country in the Ka-8. It
seems like a very nice glider. But why don't you use the club's Junior? It
it extremely nice to fly and has much better performance than the Ka-8.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
nk.net...
My favorite club glider is our K-8. I love it when I'm in a tight thermal
and I'm climbing away from a DG-1000!

Mike Schumann

"Mark Lenox" wrote in message
. ..
They'll be back. That's what happened to me. It took me over 10
years, but I never forgot....

I've got to agree with the people who say to train in newer, better
equipment. I learned to fly in a 2-33, but quite frankly couldn't care
less if I ever flew one again. Put me in an ASK-21, or better yet a
Discus (or Duo!), and I'm right where I want to be. These are great
aircraft, and there is absolutely no reason someone couldn't start out in
the K-21 and transition directly to a Discus. You can bet your last
dollar that the younger kids starting out think exactly the same way.
They'll fly anything, but if they have the chance to fly something cool,
it means much more.

When my daughter is ready to learn to fly, and that day is coming soon,
her first solo will definitely be in a K-21. No question about it.


Mark Lenox, CFIG
Chilhowee Gliderport


On the other hand, I have seen a LOT of young people who were enthralled
with soaring but who eventually left with a tear in their eyes when the
cost became overwhelming.

Bill Daniels

wrote:

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

I have 5000 hours in glass gliders, and I still think they're "hot". I
loved landing my Ka-6e or our club's Blanik, because they had great
speed control (speed limiting brakes) and seemed to land at a walking
pace. What a comfort during an off-field landing. Next best was my ASW
20 with 40 degree landing flaps - landed faster, of course, but nothing
like my Std Cirrus or the motorglider I fly now.

I know there are people that don't go cross country because their glass
ship lands fast, and this disturbs them enough they don't have the
confidence to risk an off-airport landing. I haven't kept track of what
these people learned in, so I can't say starting in a faster glider
would have made the difference.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch of
jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over the
fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The 2-32
POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum approach
speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32 enough to fly
the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to let the approach
speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands that fast.

In fact, I'd say that it's more likely that a less-skilled pilot would get
in trouble flying a too-fast approach in a slick glass ship.

Bill Daniels


"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
newsr95h.67$8u1.2@trndny04...
wrote:

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

I have 5000 hours in glass gliders, and I still think they're "hot". I
loved landing my Ka-6e or our club's Blanik, because they had great speed
control (speed limiting brakes) and seemed to land at a walking pace. What
a comfort during an off-field landing. Next best was my ASW 20 with 40
degree landing flaps - landed faster, of course, but nothing like my Std
Cirrus or the motorglider I fly now.

I know there are people that don't go cross country because their glass
ship lands fast, and this disturbs them enough they don't have the
confidence to risk an off-airport landing. I haven't kept track of what
these people learned in, so I can't say starting in a faster glider would
have made the difference.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Bill Daniels wrote:
Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch of
jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over the
fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The 2-32
POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum approach
speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32 enough to fly
the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to let the approach
speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands that fast.

Wow, those numbers strike me as fast. I did my primary training in
2-32s and typically flew the pattern around 70mph and had sufficient
float on landing.

I can't imagine why anyone would regularly do a 90mph pattern.

I did do 100mph on final once, but that was part of a checkout before I
could do commercial rides in the 2-32. Those velocity limiting dive
brakes are pretty impressive. :-)

Jeremy