Airbus 380

Jim Vincent wrote:

Another one that drank the coolaid.

"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ah, hurdles. One of the banes of the soaring experience. Philadelphia
Glider Council eliminated the hurdles a few years back by changing to
an all glass fleet with 3*G-103's for training, 2*G102's for early
single seater and XC, and an ASW-19 for a bit better XC experience. By
eliminating the hurdles, they wound up with 6 gliders doing the same
amount of work of 9 diverse gliders in the previous fleet. Secondly,
the examiners said they were turning out better pilots.

PGC's Bob Lacovara gives a convincing talk on delivering on the promise
of soaring. We promise the sleek, sexy glass slippers, but stick
students in the beat 2-33's. Better to deliver on the promise. Don't
be afraid to dream a bit.



So, what's your solution, Jim?


Jack

Jack,

Fair question. I'll need a week or so to respond to you since I'm caught
up in my honey-do list and a marketing campaign for my company.

Thanks.

Jim
"Jack" wrote in message
et...
Jim Vincent wrote:

Another one that drank the coolaid.

"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ah, hurdles. One of the banes of the soaring experience. Philadelphia
Glider Council eliminated the hurdles a few years back by changing to
an all glass fleet with 3*G-103's for training, 2*G102's for early
single seater and XC, and an ASW-19 for a bit better XC experience. By
eliminating the hurdles, they wound up with 6 gliders doing the same
amount of work of 9 diverse gliders in the previous fleet. Secondly,
the examiners said they were turning out better pilots.

PGC's Bob Lacovara gives a convincing talk on delivering on the promise
of soaring. We promise the sleek, sexy glass slippers, but stick
students in the beat 2-33's. Better to deliver on the promise. Don't
be afraid to dream a bit.



So, what's your solution, Jim?


Jack

Bill Daniels wrote:
Interesting discussion about "fast" gliders. I imagine there's a bunch of
jet jockys rolling on the floor laughing. How about 180 knots over the
fantail trying for the third wire on an 700 foot 'runway'.

Bill, why would anyone be laughing?Landing a jet and landing a
sailplane (Especially on a unprepared surface) are two totaly different
things.Sounds like one of those "There I was" stories.


The fastest landing glider in common use is the (very) old 2-32. The 2-32
POH provides little guidance on approach speeds but if the airspeed
indicator had one of those little yellow triangles showing minimum approach
speed, it would be around 75MPH. Most pilots respect the 2-32 enough to fly
the pattern around 80 - 90 MPH. I haven't got the guts to let the approach
speed get below 80. No glass glider I know of lands that fast.

Here you are getting even further from E.G's post.With less than 40 of
these things still flying, the 2-32 is not that common at all.There was
a thead earlier on RAS about a guy who advocated pattern speeds near
VNE in a 2-33 without taking into account the hazards such a high speed
creates.I would say your post follows the same logic.If you touch down
at 80KTS you are probably creating more hazards than you are
avoiding.Were you posted "No glass glider I know of lands that fast"
should read no glass glider PILOT I know of lands that fast.Think about
what you are post here Bob.If you fly a pattern at 40 MPH or so above
stall speed to avoid a "Gust induced stall" this means you are
expecting a gust in exess of 40MPH.I have never flown on a day when the
wind was gusting that high above the steady state wind..What is it
like? Sounds like another "there I was" story.


In fact, I'd say that it's more likely that a less-skilled pilot would get
in trouble flying a too-fast approach in a slick glass ship.

Anyone would get in trouble flying too fast an aproach.What the ship is
made of has no bearing on this.

Bill Daniels

K Urban

P.S. How did you keep your wheel brake from catching on fire?



"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
newsr95h.67$8u1.2@trndny04...
wrote:

Glass gliders are "hot" only if you have only flown old high drag non
glass gliders. Stop training in those.

I have 5000 hours in glass gliders, and I still think they're "hot". I
loved landing my Ka-6e or our club's Blanik, because they had great speed
control (speed limiting brakes) and seemed to land at a walking pace. What
a comfort during an off-field landing. Next best was my ASW 20 with 40
degree landing flaps - landed faster, of course, but nothing like my Std
Cirrus or the motorglider I fly now.

I know there are people that don't go cross country because their glass
ship lands fast, and this disturbs them enough they don't have the
confidence to risk an off-airport landing. I haven't kept track of what
these people learned in, so I can't say starting in a faster glider would
have made the difference.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

"Transponders in Sailplanes" on the Soaring Safety Foundation website
www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/articles.html

"A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Mike Schumann wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have enough flight experience yet to qualify to fly
the Junior under the MSC rules.

I find that really surprising.

In my club, Cambridge GC, once you've soloed, probably in an ASK-21, you
fly your next five solo flights in the same two seater, have a couple
more check rides and then convert directly into the Junior. That's what
its for: it was designed as a single seater for the new solo pilot.

The student arm of the club own a Ka-8 but, AFAIK, they convert to the
Junior first and then to the Ka-8. There is a reason for that: the
Junior is easier to winch than the Ka-8.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

http://tinyurl.com/yxety3
You may want to download this powerpoint presentation and view it
(13.3MB)
The presentation shows 7 in the original fleet, perhaps that was owned
as I recall a Krosno and another glider on their old web site, for a
total of 9. Perhaps leased and not owned.

Frank

Jack wrote:
Jim Vincent wrote:

Another one that drank the coolaid.

"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ah, hurdles. One of the banes of the soaring experience. Philadelphia
Glider Council eliminated the hurdles a few years back by changing to
an all glass fleet with 3*G-103's for training, 2*G102's for early
single seater and XC, and an ASW-19 for a bit better XC experience. By
eliminating the hurdles, they wound up with 6 gliders doing the same
amount of work of 9 diverse gliders in the previous fleet. Secondly,
the examiners said they were turning out better pilots.

PGC's Bob Lacovara gives a convincing talk on delivering on the promise
of soaring. We promise the sleek, sexy glass slippers, but stick
students in the beat 2-33's. Better to deliver on the promise. Don't
be afraid to dream a bit.



So, what's your solution, Jim?


Jack

Link is broken, I think.
"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
ups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/yxety3
You may want to download this powerpoint presentation and view it
(13.3MB)
The presentation shows 7 in the original fleet, perhaps that was owned
as I recall a Krosno and another glider on their old web site, for a
total of 9. Perhaps leased and not owned.

Frank

Jack wrote:
Jim Vincent wrote:

Another one that drank the coolaid.

"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ah, hurdles. One of the banes of the soaring experience.
Philadelphia
Glider Council eliminated the hurdles a few years back by changing to
an all glass fleet with 3*G-103's for training, 2*G102's for early
single seater and XC, and an ASW-19 for a bit better XC experience.
By
eliminating the hurdles, they wound up with 6 gliders doing the same
amount of work of 9 diverse gliders in the previous fleet. Secondly,
the examiners said they were turning out better pilots.

PGC's Bob Lacovara gives a convincing talk on delivering on the
promise
of soaring. We promise the sleek, sexy glass slippers, but stick
students in the beat 2-33's. Better to deliver on the promise. Don't
be afraid to dream a bit.



So, what's your solution, Jim?


Jack

Jim,

I didn't have any trouble with the link, or with downloading the PowerPoint
presentation.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/


"Jim Vincent" wrote in message
...
Link is broken, I think.


"Frank Whiteley" wrote in message
ups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/yxety3
You may want to download this powerpoint presentation and view it
(13.3MB)
The presentation shows 7 in the original fleet, perhaps that was owned
as I recall a Krosno and another glider on their old web site, for a
total of 9. Perhaps leased and not owned.

Frank

Jim Vincent wrote:
Another one that drank the coolaid.


So, what's your solution, Jim?
Jack

At 18:54 11 November 2006, Jim Vincent wrote:
Jack,

Fair question. I'll need a week or so to respond
to you since I'm caught up in my honey-do list and
a marketing campaign for my company.


Not even winter solstice yet...and one of our favorite
winter time topics has arisen from the ashes. Personally,
I say concede what little youth market there is to
paragliding...it is cheap, and highly visible. Even
chicks dig it. I am not saying abandon youth programs...but
use paragliding as the gateway. Where would soaring
be right now without hang-glider types with busted
landing gears?

I doubt too many of the hang-glider types converted
to soaring because they saw a couple of old codgers
sitting in lawn chairs scratching their sunspots with
a rusty 2-33 pulled up next to them at the mall.(I
stole this line from Pez) Remember the forecasts for
waves of new recruits upon the release of Thomas Crown
Affair 2?. And for that matter, an accomplished hang-glider
piilot probably does not need to hear the stories of
landing behind the enemy lines in Wacos on Normandy,
and spend hours, days, weeks,months pulling 2-33's
around on the ground.

I don't see a sane business model to build low-price
two place ships...the PW-6's are not exactly over-running
the market. Towplane costs, insurance and gas are
pretty much fixed. Winching would be great...but currently
it is rare.

Let them learn about thermals in paragliders...then
maybe we can snag them later.

Our market IMVHO, besides the aforementioned hg's...would
be software geeks, and aging skiers, bikers, windsurfers,
etc. .

If you want to hook kids, you need to partner with a school and a local
corporation that is willing to put some money into science education, get a
winch, and run a low cost after school aviation program. The thing that
will hook the kids is the kick in the pants they get with every launch.

Mike Schumann

"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
Jim Vincent wrote:
Another one that drank the coolaid.


So, what's your solution, Jim?
Jack

At 18:54 11 November 2006, Jim Vincent wrote:
Jack,

Fair question. I'll need a week or so to respond
to you since I'm caught up in my honey-do list and
a marketing campaign for my company.


Not even winter solstice yet...and one of our favorite
winter time topics has arisen from the ashes. Personally,
I say concede what little youth market there is to
paragliding...it is cheap, and highly visible. Even
chicks dig it. I am not saying abandon youth programs...but
use paragliding as the gateway. Where would soaring
be right now without hang-glider types with busted
landing gears?

I doubt too many of the hang-glider types converted
to soaring because they saw a couple of old codgers
sitting in lawn chairs scratching their sunspots with
a rusty 2-33 pulled up next to them at the mall.(I
stole this line from Pez) Remember the forecasts for
waves of new recruits upon the release of Thomas Crown
Affair 2?. And for that matter, an accomplished hang-glider
piilot probably does not need to hear the stories of
landing behind the enemy lines in Wacos on Normandy,
and spend hours, days, weeks,months pulling 2-33's
around on the ground.

I don't see a sane business model to build low-price
two place ships...the PW-6's are not exactly over-running
the market. Towplane costs, insurance and gas are
pretty much fixed. Winching would be great...but currently
it is rare.

Let them learn about thermals in paragliders...then
maybe we can snag them later.

Our market IMVHO, besides the aforementioned hg's...would
be software geeks, and aging skiers, bikers, windsurfers,
etc. .

Although I agree the target market is junior/senior HS age,
institutional organizations (including corporations) have lawyered up
under 'risk management'. 25-30 years ago, universities had all manner
of acitivity/experience clubs, including equipment and gear, on campus.
Most of that's been moved off campus now. Campus clubs are mostly
social contact groups now.

I know a soaring club member whose daughter wanted to introduce her
junior ROTC unit to soaring. The school board decided it was too
dangerous.

Frank

Mike Schumann wrote:
If you want to hook kids, you need to partner with a school and a local
corporation that is willing to put some money into science education, get a
winch, and run a low cost after school aviation program. The thing that
will hook the kids is the kick in the pants they get with every launch.

Mike Schumann

"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
Jim Vincent wrote:
Another one that drank the coolaid.


So, what's your solution, Jim?
Jack

At 18:54 11 November 2006, Jim Vincent wrote:
Jack,

Fair question. I'll need a week or so to respond
to you since I'm caught up in my honey-do list and
a marketing campaign for my company.


Not even winter solstice yet...and one of our favorite
winter time topics has arisen from the ashes. Personally,
I say concede what little youth market there is to
paragliding...it is cheap, and highly visible. Even
chicks dig it. I am not saying abandon youth programs...but
use paragliding as the gateway. Where would soaring
be right now without hang-glider types with busted
landing gears?

I doubt too many of the hang-glider types converted
to soaring because they saw a couple of old codgers
sitting in lawn chairs scratching their sunspots with
a rusty 2-33 pulled up next to them at the mall.(I
stole this line from Pez) Remember the forecasts for
waves of new recruits upon the release of Thomas Crown
Affair 2?. And for that matter, an accomplished hang-glider
piilot probably does not need to hear the stories of
landing behind the enemy lines in Wacos on Normandy,
and spend hours, days, weeks,months pulling 2-33's
around on the ground.

I don't see a sane business model to build low-price
two place ships...the PW-6's are not exactly over-running
the market. Towplane costs, insurance and gas are
pretty much fixed. Winching would be great...but currently
it is rare.

Let them learn about thermals in paragliders...then
maybe we can snag them later.

Our market IMVHO, besides the aforementioned hg's...would
be software geeks, and aging skiers, bikers, windsurfers,
etc. .