Full Stall Landing?

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I think most people use the term "full stall" with respect to landing
as you got as much lift from he wing as possible.

That's the correct definition of full stall - the point
where lift is maximized as you increase the angle of attack.

For landing, I think more people define "full stall" as you can't pull
back any more.

I like this definition. I have the "stick in my lap" at touch down if I am
doing a short field landing.

Danny Dot
www.mobbinggonemad.org

snip

wrote in message
ups.com...
snip
The early Cardinal had stabilator-stalling problems in the
flare; a few got their nosewheels busted when the nose came down hard.
Cessna slotted the stab to fix it.


I have always wondered why Cessna slotted the stab on that plane. Thanks
for the information.

Danny Dot
www.mobbinggonemad.org


Dan

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I think most people use the term "full stall" with respect to landing
as you got as much lift from he wing as possible.

That's the correct definition of full stall - the point
where lift is maximized as you increase the angle of attack.

For landing, I think more people define "full stall" as you can't pull
back any more.

In flight "full stall" has a very different meaning, meaning a full
break, but you'd never know that you achieved that on landing.

No, it's the same meaning. Just as when landing, the high
power requirement aloft means a high descent rate.

I don't think most aircraft have the available elevator authority to
achieve your definition of "full stall" while in ground effect. I can
land most SE aircraft with the elevator hitting the stops as the wheel
touch. Most aircraft don't behave that way in flight out of ground
effect. The aircraft will stall break before hitting the stops unless
you yank it into the stall (which you aren't doing during landing
either).


-Robert, CFII

vincent p. norris wrote:

However, loosely speaking, I suppose you would say that the
airflow is just beginning to depart at the stall.

But *precisely* speaking, the airplane stops flying at the moment of
a "full stall" landing.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "stops flying." I
don't stop "flying" until I climb out of the cockpit.

Read it again. Notice I didn't say anything about *you*. I said the
*airplane* stops flying. In plain English, is it now supported by its
landing gear, not its wings.

The fact that a crosswind gust may tip it over is irrelevant. That
happens to semi's, too, on the Interstates.

vince norris

But *precisely* speaking, the airplane stops flying at the moment of
a "full stall" landing.

This is my point. If I attempt a "full stall" landing and mis-judge the
highth by a few feet, I can be in an airplane that is a few feet in the air
and is NOT flying anymore. Before I transitioned to "Extreme Slow Flight"
landings, I stalled a few times a few feet in the air and dropped to the
runway out of control.

You were making "full stall landings," but you just weren't making
*good* ones! ((:-))

Look at a movie or tape of WWII carrier operations. Flying just above
stall speed, the pilot chops the throttle when he gets a "cut" from
the LSO, dumps the stick and then yanks it back into his gut. Watch
what the airplane does. It makes a "full stall landing."

But unlike your Cessna, it's designed to be landed that way. We were
trained to make full stall landings from our first flight; and nothing
drew more praise from the instructor than to have the tailwheel hit
the ground first.

vince norris

You don't think anyone else here flys a tailwheel airpane?

Karl???


"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
But *precisely* speaking, the airplane stops flying at the moment of
a "full stall" landing.

This is my point. If I attempt a "full stall" landing and mis-judge the
highth by a few feet, I can be in an airplane that is a few feet in the
air
and is NOT flying anymore. Before I transitioned to "Extreme Slow Flight"
landings, I stalled a few times a few feet in the air and dropped to the
runway out of control.

You were making "full stall landings," but you just weren't making
*good* ones! ((:-))

Look at a movie or tape of WWII carrier operations. Flying just above
stall speed, the pilot chops the throttle when he gets a "cut" from
the LSO, dumps the stick and then yanks it back into his gut. Watch
what the airplane does. It makes a "full stall landing."

But unlike your Cessna, it's designed to be landed that way. We were
trained to make full stall landings from our first flight; and nothing
drew more praise from the instructor than to have the tailwheel hit
the ground first.

vince norris

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
"Danny Dot" wrote:

This is my point. If I attempt a "full stall" landing and mis-judge the
highth by a few feet, I can be in an airplane that is a few feet in the
air
and is NOT flying anymore.

No you can't. You can be in an aircraft that is descending
because you are on the back side of the power curve. That
can cause a hard landing if you haven't given it enough
engine power or enough elevator to produce the lift and/or
power needed to stop that descent. But it's *not* a stalled
wing, and it's *not* a total disappearance of lift due to a
stall

Before I transitioned to "Extreme Slow Flight"
landings, I stalled a few times a few feet in the air and dropped to the
runway out of control. In a Cessna, this results in a bounce due to no
shocks in the landing rear.

It's extremely unlikely that you ever actually stalled near
a runway.

And it is extremely unlikely he bounced as a result.


--
Rule books are paper - they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and
metal.

- Ernest K. Gann, 'Fate is the Hunter.'

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:13:14 -0500, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote:

"Danny Dot" wrote in message
...
In my opinion the use of the term "Full Stall Landing" is a misnomer. At
least for me the term "Extreme Slow Flight Landing" would be better. I
don't put the wings into a full stall before touch down when I land as
slow as possible. I put the airplane on the edge of the stall and fly it
to the ground. I also use feel of the airplane more that airspeed.

This works for me. Maybe others attempt and get a full stall before
touchdown.

Any comments?

Danny Dot


I generally prefer wheel landings over three pointers.

You don't do three pointers on the wheels? Tail skid?
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com