Hope for the future

Jay,

The glamor of international travel is all but gone.

Oh, please! What glamor? Flying economy class hasn't changed a bit in
the last 30 years except for one thing: It has become enormously
cheaper.

Mary and I have
talked extensively about flying to Europe, but each time we consider
the agony of flying across the Atlantic with the kids in a cattle car
we decide to fly our own plane somewhere.

Just like back in the 50s: If you want glamor, you'll have to pay for
it. In First Class, international travel is plenty glamorous. And the
price of the ticket is comparable to any airline ticket in the 50s.

Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans,

And where exactly did you get that idea? What media in the US, for
example, would even report on the European attitude, no matter if it is
positive or negative? Fox "News"?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

In article .com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

The glamor of international travel is all but gone. Mary and I have
talked extensively about flying to Europe, but each time we consider
the agony of flying across the Atlantic with the kids in a cattle car
we decide to fly our own plane somewhere. Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans,

I can't argue with the agony of long flights in cramped quarters with
children, but have to disagree with the "less-than-welcoming attitude".
I've travelled in Eastern and Western Europe (as well as Africa and
Asia) and have rarely encountered anything but great hospitality. On
average, I'd rate the US near the bottom of the hospitality scale.
Smile, be polite, and roll with the punches and you and your hosts will
get along fine. The US offers great geographical variety, but it's more
of a treat to experience foods, languages, cultures, and goods well
outside what you're used to.

You haven't lived until you've tried to buy underwear at a South Korean
flea market on a Sunday night because the airline lost your luggage.
It's a hoot negotiating without the benefit of a common language with
a smiling guy who's eager to please and having as much fun with the
situation as you are. All this with background smells that let you know
your next meal is going to be a real adventure. :-)

--
Scott Post

Greg Farris wrote in
:

Certainly, the fact tht you have to just about strip naked to get on a
plane today, and you have to wait for hours as everyone else does the

If you know the rules, the process of going through security at the
airlines is not that different than it was 10 years ago. You take your
computer and put it in a tray. You take your ziploc of shaving cream and
toothpaste samples and put it in a tray, with your phone and your wallet
and your shoes, and walk through the metal detector. It's really not all
that complicated. And taking off your shoes isn't quite stripping naked.

The problem is there are still way too many people who either don't know
the rules, or don't care, causing the lines to be unusually long and
increasing the time required to get to the airport to ensure you'll get
through in time. Just the other day, my associate related to me this
experience from earlier in the week as he went through security at EWR:

Walking down the lanes to the security counter, they stop everyone and
remind them to put their liquids in ziplocks, which they offer.

A woman about 4 ahead of him put her bag on the belt. "Is this your bag?"
Sure enough the TSA officer pulls out a 20oz bottle of shampoo and another
of conditioner. As the line comes to a standing halt, he explains to the
woman that she can't bring these on the plane. Several minutes pass by as
she objects, and he continues to tell her she can either forfeit them or go
and check them. Finally, she decides to go and check them.

The next woman in the line has a very similar conversation with the
security officer about her makeup... And similarly, the 3rd woman in the
line.

By the time the fourth woman in the line gets there and starts her , he
wants to yell at her and ask her if she was sleeping for the last 10
minutes while the 3 woman in front of her just went through the same thing.

By contrast, I flew on a USAir Shuttle from LGA. The USAir Shuttle has a
separate security line that rarely has long lines. The people who take the
USAir Shuttle are typically flying back and forth on a regular basis, and
so they know the rules and know the procedures.

They have their laptops in their hands before they get to the tray tables,
and they pop their stuff into the trays and make their way through. I was
through security and at my gate in about 5 minutes like "the good ole
days".

But this still doesn't change the fact that it's really hard to eek any
demonstrable utility out of private aviation today. If your calculation
includes any cost-to-benefit consideration at all then you're right out
the window. If cost is of little concern, or pleasure is great enough to
justify it, then you still have to weigh-in the time and hassle to and
from the airports - and in many cases in the US it would simply be
more convenient, as Jay says, to drive it.

It depends on how you value your time, and what you mean by private
aviation. If you are talking about spending thousands of dollars to fly on
a chartered jet, you're probably right. But quite frankly, I frequently
save both time and money as compared with the airlines when I fly in a
Bonanza (or even an Arrow) within about 500 miles from my home airport.
This is especially true when compared to commercial flights that include
multiple legs, especially when the hub is a big one that always encounters
delays - like ORD or IAD. I can't tell you how many times I missed a
connection and it cost me more hours than I care to think about. In fact,
on my return trip on Friday, I was delayed 3 hours because my connection
was through ORD was delayed. Weather was not an issue, the delay was caused
by "Air Traffic Control".

I've never had a 3 hour delay by ATC in the Bonanza....

If you know the rules, the process of going through security at the
airlines is not that different than it was 10 years ago. You take your
computer and put it in a tray. You take your ziploc of shaving cream and
toothpaste samples and put it in a tray, with your phone and your wallet
and your shoes, and walk through the metal detector. It's really not all
that complicated. And taking off your shoes isn't quite stripping naked.

The problem is not the difficulty of the procedure, it is the
implications. Your laptop (at least for an international flight) is
subject to siezure and search. Your luggage is gone through by TSA (you
just have to "trust them"). I have had things damaged and my personal
papers gone through. You can't take a bottle of Sonoma wine home in
carry on any more. You are only permitted three ounces of liquids,
which is not enough to drink. (Just trust the airlines to have water
for you if the flight gets delayed. Trust the flight attendants to not
be testy too.)

Our children are getting used to being searched like this, and will grow
up thinking it's normal. (It's not just airlines. Stores, schools, and
websites do the same thing.)

But it's ok. Ziplog bags protect us from terrorists. Just obey.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

The glamor of international travel is all but gone. Mary and I have
talked extensively about flying to Europe, but each time we consider
the agony of flying across the Atlantic with the kids in a cattle car
we decide to fly our own plane somewhere. Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans, it's just easier to spend our tourist dollar in the
Western hemisphere. God knows there are plenty of places we haven't
yet seen on our side of the pond that are reachable in Atlas.

An instrument rating and a visit from NW_Pilot can help you solve that
problem. You keep telling us how great ATLAS is, a trip across the pond
would really prove that. :-))

In article ,
Jose wrote:

Your laptop (at least for an international flight) is
subject to siezure and search.

Which is why one should use TrueCrypt.

In article ,
says...


Jay,

The glamor of international travel is all but gone.

Oh, please! What glamor? Flying economy class hasn't changed a bit in
the last 30 years except for one thing: It has become enormously
cheaper.

I was referring to "glamor" mostly as regards pilots. I'll bet in 1975,
most Americans and Europeans would list "Airline Pilot" within the top ten
of their list of "glamor professions". I'll bet fewer than one in ten
would today - just a guess though.

Concerning passengers - when I was in High School, in the '70's, I was
one of the few (10%) who had actually flown on a plane! Today I doubt you
will find many 15 year-old Americans or Europeans who have not. There is
certainly something less "exclusive" about it.

Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans,

And where exactly did you get that idea?

The truth is a good starting point!
With so many people choosing France as a desired destination, it is a
shame that CDG airport is completely out-classed by the modern, welcoming
airports in China, Indonesia, Singapore and Dubai. Arriving in France is a
very "nerves of steel" experience.

GF



--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 20:12:18 GMT, john smith wrote:

Your laptop (at least for an international flight) is
subject to siezure and search.

Which is why one should use TrueCrypt.

hell no. only have the OS on the laptop and have the data in a secure place
in Europe (encrypted, of course). I'll never travel again to the US
bringing any sensitive data with me (_IF_ I'll ever go there again and
spend some AMUs just for the fun of it; there are not so hostile [in terms
of security, censorship, freedom and _privacy_] places also taking this
money nd offering similar features). I'd like to see any stats if there was
an impact on the US-tourism industry due to the changes during the last
couple of years.

#m
--
Enemy Combatant http://itsnotallbad.com/

Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans,

And where exactly did you get that idea? What media in the US, for
example, would even report on the European attitude, no matter if it is
positive or negative? Fox "News"?

Oh, how about the time, while visiting the brother (German) of a friend in
Berlin, it was time to eat, so we stopped in at a (common to them) restaurant.
The brother and friend were a few minutes behind, so we went in, got a table,
and were given menus to look at. The friend and the brother arrived, sat down,
then I noticed her (the friend's) face getting red, then real red, then the
waiter came by. She asked (in German) "what were these? Where are the real
menus?" Then the waiter's face started getting red. He mumbled something in
German, then shuffled off. Our friend said, "We are leaving. Let's go. Now!"

We got outside, and asked what was wrong; why had we left. She was almost in
tears, and said that she was so mad and embarrassed, because this waiter had
seen a chance to stiff a bunch of Americans, and had given us the menus (that
they obviously had prepared for situations where tourists come in) that had all
of the prices about double from the normal prices.

Sounds unwelcoming to me.

I could go on with other examples, but I won't.
--
Jim in NC

I'd like to see any stats if there was
an impact on the US-tourism industry due to the changes during the last
couple of years.

I subscribe to a number of lodging industry magazines, naturally, and
if there's been any impact it's not been measurable. In fact, the
lodging industry as a whole has been experiencing record and continuous
growth since 2002, after taking a big hit right after 9/11.

Now, of course, there's more to tourism than simply lodging, but it's a
good bellwether.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"