100 Hour Inspections

Lou wrote:


Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a CFI keeps
borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his personal fee, the
plane needs a hundred hour inspection?

ABSOLUTELY.

I'm new at this game, but that
doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane is a rental,
it needs a hundred hour inspection.

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say
"carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

I am certain that the flying club I
belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the club rules not
the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by each member, not
rented.

Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is if the club
provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100 hour. If
the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get your own
instructor, it is not.

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
Recently, Jim Macklin posted:

renting out is not for hire, unless the renter is using the
airplane for instruction given or providing charter
services.

Oh? If "renting out is not for hire", then what does a flying club or an
FBO do? The ARE required to have 100 hr. inspections, even if they aren't
providing charter services or giving instruction.

Absolutely incorrect. They are NOT required to have 100 hour inspections.


Jim
A&P, IA

Jim...

That's not the current interpretation from Ok City. The FBO or club that
rents aircraft for instruction is not required to have 100 hour inspections.
The focus of the 100 hour inspection has been severely narrowed to mean that
the instructor him/herself must own the aircraft, rent it to the student,
and also be giving dual instruction for the purposes of the regs.

WHat is still a gray area is if (as in my case) a CORPORATION owns the
aircraft, I 100% own the corporate stock, and I give the instruction,
whether the corporation can rent the aircraft and I give the instruction
without the 100 hour inspection. I never worried about it; I simply did the
100 hour myself and didn't push the issue, but the issue is still
unresolved.

You may have a later Staff Counsel opinion and if so, I'd like a pointer to
it.

Jim



"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
Their own rules may require 100 hour inspections, but the
FAA does not for airplanes just used for rental. A renter
is considered the "operator" of the airplane.

Even an FBO that is using a fleet of airplanes for
instruction, that are required to have 100 hour inspections
for the instruction [ read dual flights] can rent those same
airplanes to a student or any other person even if the 100
hour inspecdtion is due [ time up].

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Lou wrote:


Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a CFI keeps
borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his personal fee, the
plane needs a hundred hour inspection?

ABSOLUTELY.

I don't think so, Ron.



I'm new at this game, but that
doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane is a rental,
it needs a hundred hour inspection.

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say "carrying
passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

That's not the current word out of Ok CIty. If the instructor provides the
aircraft and does the instruction, yes. If the instructor "borrows" my
airplane (and we need a REAL GOOD definition of "borrow" here) and gives his
student instruction, passing the rental fee on to me, the aircraft does NOT
need the 100 hour.



I am certain that the flying club I
belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the club rules not
the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by each member, not
rented.

Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is if the club
provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100 hour. If
the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get your own
instructor, it is not.

Again, I do not believe that is true. The instructor must in some way be
providing the aircraft. Simply being employed or associated with the club
or FBO doesn't yield that vital "provides" link.

Jim

If the CFI rents your airplane and "hires out" to give
instruction he is doing the operation for hire as the
airplane operator.

If the CFI sends his students to you to rent the airplane
and he must be the only CFI available, then it is a shame
operation, fraud. The FAA will yank his ticket and you
could also find your certificate suspended or revoked.

But a business that rents airplanes does not have to do 100
inspections. If a flying club rents or makes available an
airplane for a student or higher pilot to rent and does not
restrict the choice of instructor who might be in the
airplane, then instruction given in an airplane rented and
controlled by the student, using an instructor not employed
by the club, does not require a 100 inspection. But if the
club controls who may fly and instruct, then the club must
do the 100 hour inspections.

If your friend sends a student pilot to you and you rent or
lease the airplane and you allow [insist ] that your friend
can't give the instruction unless he pays for the 100 hour
inspections, you should be safe from the FAA but not
necessarily the IRS or the insurance company.

Your friendly CFI can do more flying since he is getting his
airplane cheap from you. Ask your attorney who knows
business law and the FAA regulations about your legal
liability.



"Lou" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
|
| On Nov 28, 10:24 pm, "Jim Macklin"
| wrote:
| You own the airplane and have hired a pilot/CFI. This
is
| not a "for hire "operation. However if you allow the
CFI to
| sell instruction to other people in your airplane you
need
| the 100 inspections.
|
| Also, renting an airplane to even a student pilot is not
a
| "for hire" operation and the airplane does not need the
100
| inspection.
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFI,A&P
|
|
|
| Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a
CFI keeps
| borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his
personal fee, the
| plane needs a hundred hour inspection? I'm new at this
game, but that
| doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the plane
is a rental,
| it needs a hundred hour inspection. I am certain that the
flying club I
| belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the
club rules not
| the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by
each member, not
| rented.
| Lou
|

Good answers.



"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
| Lou wrote:
|
|
| Is this true? If I own an airplane and a friend who is a
CFI keeps
| borrowing my plane to instruct a third party for his
personal fee, the
| plane needs a hundred hour inspection?
|
| ABSOLUTELY.
|
| I'm new at this game, but that
| doesn't sound right. My understanding is that if the
plane is a rental,
| it needs a hundred hour inspection.
|
| INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The
rules say
| "carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when
the
| instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor
comes and
| flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If
it comes
| in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the
100 hour
| is requied.
|
| I am certain that the flying club I
| belong to has hundred hour inspections only due to the
club rules not
| the FAA. The planes in my club are considered owned by
each member, not
| rented.
|
| Ownership again isn't so much of an issue. The issue is
if the club
| provides both the instructor and the plane, it needs a 100
hour. If
| the club just rents you the plane and you go out and get
your own
| instructor, it is not.

Ron Natalie wrote in news:456d8f87$0$1618
:

INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The rules say
"carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction when the
instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor comes and
flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required. If it comes
in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the 100 hour
is requied.

This is an interesting point...

If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing the aircraft - me or
the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)

And if the club does not pay the CFI for his services (but the student
does)...

The wording would imply that this situation does not require 100 hour
service.

If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing the aircraft - me or
the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)

Absent contortions to the contrary, you are. You choose the aircraft
and schedule it, you pay for it. You pick the instructor and pay him.
The instructor's being a club =member= is not the same as supplying the
aircraft.

So long as you are free to use another instructor with this aircraft,
and are free to use a non-club aircraft with this instructor, they are
not tied together.

Generally a club does not employ instructors. They permit instructors
to instruct in their aircraft.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

If the club allows the student to use instructors from
outside the club, then the 100 hour inspection is not
required, but most clubs seem to only allow club member
instructors or employees to give instruction. So the
business rules of the club, as applied to the FAR would be
the factor.



"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
| Ron Natalie wrote in
news:456d8f87$0$1618
| :
|
| INCORRECT. Rental has no bearing on the issue. The
rules say
| "carrying passengers for hire, or flight instruction
when the
| instructor provides the aircraft." If an instructor
comes and
| flies with me in MY aircraft, no 100 hour is required.
If it comes
| in his aircraft (or the club/fbo that employs him), the
100 hour
| is requied.
|
| This is an interesting point...
|
| If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing
the aircraft - me or
| the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)
|
| And if the club does not pay the CFI for his services (but
the student
| does)...
|
| The wording would imply that this situation does not
require 100 hour
| service.

Often club membership has a waiting period, based on the
number of airplanes and on the number of instructors. As a
result, instructors usually do not have to wait to join and
they may even get a discount on fees ad dues.



"Jose" wrote in message
news | If both I and the CFI are club members, who is providing
the aircraft - me or
| the CFI? (Presumably, I'm paying for it that day.)
|
| Absent contortions to the contrary, you are. You choose
the aircraft
| and schedule it, you pay for it. You pick the instructor
and pay him.
| The instructor's being a club =member= is not the same as
supplying the
| aircraft.
|
| So long as you are free to use another instructor with
this aircraft,
| and are free to use a non-club aircraft with this
instructor, they are
| not tied together.
|
| Generally a club does not employ instructors. They permit
instructors
| to instruct in their aircraft.
|
| Jose
| --
| "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing.
Unfortunately, nobody knows
| what they are." - (mike).
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.