MS Flight Sim As a Training Tool

Jon Kraus wrote:
Oh really. Have you flown in any clouds so you can make that statement
honestly?

I've done my share of cloud flying in a variety of light airplanes, and
I agree with him. I've also used quite a few FTD's, both for my own
training and as an instructor, including a full-motion (electric) with
visuals GA FTD certified for full IPC's (and helped fine-tune the
flight model) and must say that even the basic MSFS flight model is
superior to what you get in the certified world at the GA level.

In my always humble opinion there is a huge difference
between flying IMC for real and playing a computer game.

Not really. If anything, MSFS is more difficult because the feel of
the airplane (which provides some cues) isn't there - you have to do it
on pure scan. If you can fly the IFR procedures in MSFS, you can do it
in a GA airplane - and in most GA airplanes, it will be easier.

The only real difference between doing it on MSFS vs doing it for real
is that the consequences of not doing well are a lot more severe.
Flying an actual airplane does require more money, and more guts (or
tolerance for risk, if you want to be politically correct about it) but
it does not require more skill and knowledge.

If MSFS were
"as real as it gets" then why can't your time playing be logged?

Because the decision on what can be logged is made by FAA bureaucrats -
in other words, useless bloody loonies. The relationship between FAA
regulation and common sense is far from deterministic. I've got some
experience on old-style FTD's that could be used for logging time -
they are inferior to MSFS in every respect.

MSFS is an excellent flight training tool for IFR, and is decent (but
not great) for VFR.

Michael

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Please find me one pilot that doesn't feel sensations are major factor in
flight feel free to have them to speak up.

Pilots clearly tend to feel that sensations are important to them.

Pilots have human brains. Brains respond to "sensations", sometimes as
you would expect, sometimes not.


That doesn't mean that sensations are an important part of flight.

For me, survival is "Important".


Google "Spatial Disorientation", or "Vertigo" you arrogant little twit.
Better yet, take a "Low Pressure/Night vision" course sometime. Maybe you
can simulate it.

Al G

wrote

I tried to reason with you... it's impossible... you're a copmlete
numbskull.

That is a given, by now apparent to everyone.

Do your best, and if everyone does their best, to not even respond to him at
all. The sooner everyone does that, the sooner we will be rid of him.

Yes, you can go all the way down his posts and point out that he is wrong. It
won't do any good. It only serves to prolong his presence.
--
Jim in NC

"Nomen Nescio" wrote

Moron!

Everyone knows that, Nomen. Ignore him, and don't respond at all. We all know
what he posts is drivel. No need to point it out in a response.

The sooner nobody responds, the sooner he will be gone.

I'll be quiet, now. g
--
Jim in NC

Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

Neil Gould writes:

You don't understand the sensations associated with flying,
so you dismiss their importance.

You overestimate the importance of sensations associated with flying,
and so you exaggerate their significance.

Well, one of us can actually fly an airplane. Since that excludes you,
perhaps you'll enlighten us as to how you arrived at your conclusion?

Neil

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Okay, I know this one has been beaten up before -- but my eyes are now
wide open to the possibilities a sim can provide. Here are a few data
points for discussion:

1. IFR Flight
big snip

I've been using our hotel's night manager (a fellow we've taken flying
a couple of times, but who has no flight training experience) as a
guinea pig, and he has really progressed nicely in just a few days of
practice. Not only is he now able to land the sim reliably, but he has
learned an awful lot about basic flight procedures and conditions
during various portions of flight -- without burning a gallon of avgas.


I think you could probably shave several hours off of your Private by
practicing in the Kiwi -- and it will be invaluable to me as an
instrument procedures trainer.

Besides just being a helluva lot of fun, of course!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


Well MSFS I'm sure can be fun. And I'm equally sure it can provide a lot of
learning lessons. And, no doubt, help you with IFR procedures. Plus when you
push on this, the airplane does that...

However, I think you would agree that sittting in front of a computer by
yourself (no instructor, no pilot in the other seat to learn from) won't
teach you how to fly.

For example. There is a person who frequents this news group who claims to
have been flying MSFS for "years" and apparently puts a great deal of
thought and effort into it, but looking at this thread alone I find:

"I collapsed the nose gear landing at KCID just last night, after an
ILS approach to runway 27."

"Only a few days earlier, in similarly gusty weather, I lost all the
gear landing in fog at Logan International."

"I've tried engine failures on a number of occasions, although mostly
in the Baron. That and attempts with failures in a single-engine
plane have taught me that engine failures need to be avoided at all
costs. Particularly with just one engine, there's a good chance that
you won't make it, period."
From other threads it is very clear that this person lacks basic pilotage
skills and has to rely on the gauges to navigate. He also doesn't seem to
understand how someone gets disoriented in the air. And, with some effort, I
could probably find other shortcomings with his skills.

Clearly "learn yourself flying" from MSFS isn't working.

NOTE: Let me be VERY clear, I'm not trying to pick on anyone - I am trying
to look at the process, not the person. I'm sure that the effort expended in
trying to learn has been sincere, but the results appear to be spotty at
best.

It seems obvious to me, that one really needs to spend some time in an
airplane with another pilot to get the basics down. Your manager has had the
benefit of watching others as well as having you standing over his shoulder
coaching him, - right? That's a far cry from "trial and error" learning on
your own - that's a tough row to hoe. (Note that no one ever calls it "trial
and succeed".) Jay, would you agree that stepping into an airplane would
still be a chalenge for your manager? And, (again with someone instructing
or coaching) would it give his skills a big boost?

I think this kind of simulator can _augment_ training in an aircraft, but
it doesn't replace it.

Geoff OUT.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

In article cjndh.8305$Ga7.8256@trnddc01, N2310D wrote:

"Blanche" wrote in message


Actually, three :-)

Dudley Henriques

One more, and we can play a decent game of Bridge!

You can do it now, Blanche, except in this case the dummy is a permanent
fixture. Not sure how you'd do with that.

*spit take*

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

I've been using our hotel's night manager (a fellow we've taken flying
a couple of times, but who has no flight training experience) as a
guinea pig, and he has really progressed nicely in just a few days of
practice. Not only is he now able to land the sim reliably, but he has
learned an awful lot about basic flight procedures and conditions
during various portions of flight -- without burning a gallon of avgas.

I knew it!! You guys are sticking Mary doing room and tax balancing the
night audit while you two go and play with the new toy!!!
:-))
Dudley

I admit defeat, and I think everyone else should also. It is sorely
obvious that each and every one of us has no valid knowledge or
experience relevant to aircraft and aviation. It is also obvious,
glaringly so, that only, and I repeat, ONLY Anthony has the
entire collection of the Secrets of the Universe and Staying Up in
the Atmosphere in Winged Vehicle.

Hence we should all genuflect in the direction of Paris and never
again presume to contradict nor comment nor remark upon His Most
Expert and All-Encompassing Knowledge. For afterall, we are merely
unworthy Mortals, who have no ability to coruscate nor countenance
any iota of valid data with regards to Aviation.

"Blanche" wrote in message
...

For afterall, we are merely
unworthy Mortals, who have no ability to coruscate nor countenance
any iota of valid data with regards to Aviation.

"coruscate"

Blanche, I'm not absolutely certain mind you, but I think the ability to use
this word in a sentence automatically qualifies you for an ATP :-)

Dudley Henriques