Can MSFS Kill you?

A good clean airplane. Going to the straight tail configuration actually
took a lot of the bugs out of it. I never actually got to the point where I
can honestly say that I "liked" the V tails. We also had a Bellanca Viking
that I liked a lot more. Sort of a tank with wings if you know what I mean
:-)) Bobby Bishop used to use one for airshow demonstrations. I believe they
had two Sumo wrestlers that Bellanca hired who would stand on the wingtips
and jump up and down on them. You could use that airplane for a paper
weight!!
:-)
Dudley Henriques


"Danny Dot" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

"Danny Dot" wrote in message
...

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:Rkfdh.3039$Gp2.1364@trndny06...
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...FA021& akey=1

"The airplane was being operated as an instrument flight rules (IFR)
cross-country personal flight under Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the
accident occurred. The non-instrument rated, solo private-certificated
pilot, sustained fatal injuries"
......
"The flight originated at the New Smyrna Beach Municipal Airport, New
Smyrna Beach, Florida, about 1920 eastern standard time (EST), and was
en route to the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, New
Orleans, Louisiana. "
.......
"The instructor noted that the accident pilot had been practicing the
flight route to New Orleans using a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000
program, on his personal computer. "

If it gives a private pilot confedence he can fly IFR, I would say it
can kill you. The weather was 100 foot ceiling and 3/4 mile visibility.
This is a very hard approach for ANYONE to make.

I used to own a 35 model Bonanza (the one with the forked tail). The
plane is unstable in roll, very unstable. You look down to get the next
chart and the plane rolls to 45 degrees in a flash. If you do nothing,
roll will increase. It would be VERY easy to loose control of the
plane. He had a J35 model which was made in 1958. I wonder if he had
any type of autopilot. Just a simple wing leveller would help a bunch
with the unstable roll of the plane.

Danny Dot

A gun will kill you as well, if you point it at yourself and pull the
trigger. :-)

I've flown the early V tail Bo quite a bit during my career and never had
trouble in roll. I found the airplane quite stable in all axis. It does
however have a tendency to oscillate in a continuous coupling that can
make the back seat pax sick as hell.
Our line boy hated the airplane. Every time I brought it back from a
charter, he had to clean up the back .
:-)

This is very true of the V-tail Bonanza. Many pasengers get sick.

I liked the roll characteristics myself. Much more responsive in roll
than most light aircraft.

Danny Dot

Dudley Henriques
[MVP] Microsoft Flight Simulator

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:26:57 GMT, "Steve Foley"
wrote:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...FA021& akey=1

"The airplane was being operated as an instrument flight rules (IFR)
cross-country personal flight under Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the accident
occurred. The non-instrument rated, solo private-certificated pilot,
sustained fatal injuries"

It wasn't MSFS that killed him it was the mind set that simming is
just like the real thing. Three area lot of things that flight
training sims and yes, even MSFS can help, but the motion sensations
and getting used to flying in the soup is definitely not one of them.

Reading the transcript it sure sounds like he had become disoriented.
You don't just get dizzy, your thinking gets stuck in the mud making
even speech an effort.

As to the fuel that was unavailable in the one tip tank,: Although he
had the other tip tank, the Bo does not like to have one wing heavier
than the other. Mine is placarded to keep the tanks within 5 gallons
of each other. It can get wing heavy in a hurry although it'll fly
just fine that way if the pilot expects it and allows for it.

The Bo is a good instrument platform although most of them flown in
much IMC will have a good autopilot. The Bo is light and quick on the
controls compared to something like a 182. If you are going to look
for something you are better off making sure it's level and then
taking your hands off the yoke as most of us have a tendency to turn
the plane in the direction we turn.

......
"The flight originated at the New Smyrna Beach Municipal Airport, New Smyrna
Beach, Florida, about 1920 eastern standard time (EST), and was en route to
the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, New Orleans,
Louisiana. "
.......
"The instructor noted that the accident pilot had been practicing the flight
route to New Orleans using a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000 program, on his
personal computer. "

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:11:44 -0500, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Danny Dot" wrote in message
. ..

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:Rkfdh.3039$Gp2.1364@trndny06...
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?...FA021& akey=1

"The airplane was being operated as an instrument flight rules (IFR)
cross-country personal flight under Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the
accident occurred. The non-instrument rated, solo private-certificated
pilot, sustained fatal injuries"
......
"The flight originated at the New Smyrna Beach Municipal Airport, New
Smyrna Beach, Florida, about 1920 eastern standard time (EST), and was en
route to the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport, New
Orleans, Louisiana. "
.......
"The instructor noted that the accident pilot had been practicing the
flight route to New Orleans using a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000
program, on his personal computer. "

If it gives a private pilot confedence he can fly IFR, I would say it can
kill you. The weather was 100 foot ceiling and 3/4 mile visibility. This
is a very hard approach for ANYONE to make.

I used to own a 35 model Bonanza (the one with the forked tail). The
plane is unstable in roll, very unstable. You look down to get the next

It may have been out of rig and the plane is normally quite stable.
*quick* and light on the controls, but stable. However when
comparing airplane stability between pilots it becomes a relative
term. If the pilot is used to a 210 the light controls and quick
response of the Bo would make it seem unstable to that pilot.

chart and the plane rolls to 45 degrees in a flash. If you do nothing,

That's where you take your hands off the yoke before turning and
looking down.

roll will increase. It would be VERY easy to loose control of the plane.
He had a J35 model which was made in 1958. I wonder if he had any type of
autopilot. Just a simple wing leveller would help a bunch with the
unstable roll of the plane.

Danny Dot

A gun will kill you as well, if you point it at yourself and pull the
trigger. :-)

I've flown the early V tail Bo quite a bit during my career and never had
trouble in roll. I found the airplane quite stable in all axis. It does
however have a tendency to oscillate in a continuous coupling that can make
the back seat pax sick as hell.

Ahhh... The old back seat barf factor.
Mine is a straight tail, but it likes to wag its tail as well. The big
difference I see is in turbulence. There, mine *seems* to do much
better.

With the quick response, a bit of tail wag, and the back seats being a
bit behind the main spar it makes for some unusual sensations. If you
pull up the back seat passengers tend to pivot down in the plane but
feel the acceleration of the pull up which confuses the senses. Now
throw in a bit of side to side movement which ends up with the
passengers in a sort of stirring motion resulting in the "urge to
regurge". Pardon me, but would you pass the lunch bags.please.

The only thing worse is a first timer with a camera.

Our line boy hated the airplane. Every time I brought it back from a
charter, he had to clean up the back .
:-)

Maybe those new garbage bags with the built in tie strap instead of
the little lunch bag? Stuff their heads in and tie it around their
necks.?

Dudley Henriques
[MVP] Microsoft Flight Simulator

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:07:03 GMT, Jose
wrote:

"The instructor noted that the accident pilot had been practicing the flight
route to New Orleans using a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000 program, on his
personal computer. "

"The logbook also revealed that the pilot was in the process of
receiving flight instruction for an instrument rating."

Maybe getting instrument instruction can kill you too.

Yup!

You know those old saying:

A little knowledge can be dangerous or...
I know just enough to be dangerous.

When it comes to instrument flight in actual IMC I don't think truer
words have been spoken.

Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:11:44 -0500, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

Our line boy hated the airplane. Every time I brought it back from a
charter, he had to clean up the back .
:-)

Maybe those new garbage bags with the built in tie strap instead of
the little lunch bag? Stuff their heads in and tie it around their
necks.?

I think I remember the line boy attempting to do that to one of the pax one
day while he was walking out to clean up the airplane. :-)

Dudley

In article ,
says...


I used to own a 35 model Bonanza (the one with the forked tail).


You did not!
Those planes are too expensive to own!
;-)

Roger writes:

It wasn't MSFS that killed him it was the mind set that simming is
just like the real thing.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the accident pilot had such a
mindset. There is no evidence that MSFS played any role in bringing
about the accident.

The pilot was not very experienced with instrument flight and was
unrated for instrument flight. The weather conditions were poor IMC.
Those alone might have still allowed him to survive, but he had a
recurrent fuel-system problem which had manifested itself on earlier
flights and which he had not fully resolved before the accident
flight. This problem proccupied him during the accident flight and
eventually led to exhaustion of his fuel while still in the air. All
of these together conspired to dramatically diminish his chances of
survival, and in fact he died on the flight. MSFS was nowhere in this
scenario.

Three area lot of things that flight
training sims and yes, even MSFS can help, but the motion sensations
and getting used to flying in the soup is definitely not one of them.

Dealing with fuel-system issues and getting them fixed before you fly
again are also among the scenarios that are not simulated by MSFS.

How do you feel about practicing planned instrument flights in a sim
before actually carrying them out? It's hard to see how this could
possibly hurt. Some people even practice their VFR flights in a sim
before actually taking to the air. It seems like an excellent way of
helping to make one aware of what must be done in what order for a
specific flight.

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On 2006-12-05, Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:
Sure it was over confidence, but did he have that confidence because he had
read on the internet that flying MSFS was just like real life?

There's even more on the Internet that says MSFS is nothing like real
life, though.

Of course, it's all speculation. I'd wager many newly minted legal IFR
pilots would have had a hard time with an imminent fuel emergency adding
to the stress, night and very low IMC conditions.

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On 2006-12-05, Danny Dot wrote:
I used to own a 35 model Bonanza (the one with the forked tail). The plane
is unstable in roll, very unstable.

I have about 100 hours in an S-35 Bonanza - and didn't find it in the
least 'very unstable'. Sure, it was no Cessna 172, but I found it much
easier to fly in IMC than say, a Piper Arrow, because the Bonanza tended
to stay where you trimmed it. Mostly, I flew that plane when I needed to
go somewhere IFR. I agree with you entirely that it won't sort itself
out if you start a roll and a novice IFR pilot could easily get into
trouble. Especially in low IMC with a fuel emergency.

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Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Dylan Smith writes:

Of course, it's all speculation. I'd wager many newly minted legal IFR
pilots would have had a hard time with an imminent fuel emergency adding
to the stress, night and very low IMC conditions.

Even in simulation.

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