Flight Following question

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote:

I've got a VFR friend who always files (but doesn't open) an IFR flight plan for longer cross-countries. That way, the
flight is in the system for the whole route, so it's (at least alegedly) easier for the controller to find. Not sure how much
truth there is to that, but it does make some sense.


If it's never opened it will remain a proposed flight plan at the
departure point until it times out two hours after the proposed
departure time. Controllers along the route will not have it.

But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?

On 12/10/06 18:45, Jim Carter wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Newps ]
Posted At: Sunday, December 10, 2006 6:37 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Flight Following question
Subject: Flight Following question

...
Just file a regular IFR and pick it up how you normally do. When you
get to the point you want to be VFR tell the controller you want to
cancel and receive FF.

Duh!! That makes perfect sense; I don't know why I was following the VFR
altitude for IFR plan thread. Of course that prompts another question:
if its that easy to get FF then why bother with the IFR / VFR finagle to
start with? Why not just do as you suggest and file IFR with the
intention of cancelling over to FF after departure?

It can't be that we've got non-instrument rated pilots filing IFR plans
can it?


Consider also that departing IFR may mean delays and departure routes contrary
to what you may be able to get if you depart VFR.




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

John Clonts wrote:

But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?


Right.

: John Clonts wrote:
:
: But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
: controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?
:

: Right.

Ooops... that's what I meant to say in my post, but apparently didn't. He
*files* IFR and although doesn't accept an IFR clearance, he does request flight
following after takeoff. So, in that instance the strip *is* in the the system
throughout, making it easier/more likely for FF handoffs?

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:

Ooops... that's what I meant to say in my post, but apparently didn't. He
*files* IFR and although doesn't accept an IFR clearance, he does request flight
following after takeoff. So, in that instance the strip *is* in the the system
throughout, making it easier/more likely for FF handoffs?


Yes. You can file an IFR flight plan with a requested altitude of
"VFR" or "VFR/(planned VFR cruise altitude)". Once a departure message
is entered the strips will process just like an IFR flight and will
enable automated handoffs. Be advised that this won't work in al areas
because some facilities inhibit the processing of flight plans with
"VFR" as the altitude.

Jim Carter wrote:
So far, every time I come out of ROG and request flight following to it
doesn’t matter where, I get a discrete squawk that allows departure to
hand me off to Memphis Center, or Dallas, or Kansas City. Coming out of
LIT however I’ve never been given anything except a local code and then
about 15 miles out the familiar “radar advisories terminated, squawk
VFR, have a nice day”.

I specifically tested this twice on Friday, making sure that when I
called up clearance delivery and then ground that I made it very plain
that I was requesting flight following. Both times, again they dumped me
from the system between 15 and 20 miles out. The second time, I forced
the issue and stated that I was requesting flight following for the
enroute segment if able. I was then given a Memphis enroute code and
handed off within about 10 miles.

My question for the group is: is there a special terminology that should
be used when requesting full-enroute flight following? Or, why do some
controllers provide that service automatically and others seemingly only
under duress? (I don’t think it is a controller issue, however it might
be a facility policy issue).

I use a non-demanding request such as ...wonder if you could put me in
the computer for flight following to XYZ.

That almost always gets it all the way, or least an explanation why they
can't.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hansen ]
Posted At: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:22 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Flight Following question
Subject: Flight Following question

....
Consider also that departing IFR may mean delays and departure routes
contrary
to what you may be able to get if you depart VFR.




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Very true Mark. In the case of KLIT however, the IFR departures seem to
get the routes they want and the VFR departures all get R or L turn to
270, maintain 2000' or lower until further advised. Seeing you're from
SAC I suspect things are quite a bit different on that side of the hill.

On 12/11/06 17:20, Jim Carter wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hansen ]
Posted At: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:22 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Flight Following question
Subject: Flight Following question

...
Consider also that departing IFR may mean delays and departure routes
contrary
to what you may be able to get if you depart VFR.




Very true Mark. In the case of KLIT however, the IFR departures seem to
get the routes they want and the VFR departures all get R or L turn to
270, maintain 2000' or lower until further advised. Seeing you're from
SAC I suspect things are quite a bit different on that side of the hill.


I dunno, really ;-) My only IFR departures so far have been training or
local practice flights, most of which head straight for the local VOR
station before going on course anyway.

However, I was speaking in generalities. I'm sure there are some airports
where this won't be an issue, but I thought it was worth consideration
while planning what type of departure is appropriate for the flight.

Best,



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Okay, here's my question. When I get FF on a long trip, often I get handed
off from centers, approaches, etc. to my destination. I have been put "in
the system" along the way. How do controllers do that so the handoff
happens? Does the original entry into the system generate P strips along
the route like an IFR flight? If so, how do they do it so that the flight
is not IFR? Do they "force" the VFR aspect like this thread has been
discussing? Is the handoff automatic, or does it get coordinated by land
line, or both?

But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?

LWG wrote:
Okay, here's my question. When I get FF on a long trip, often I get handed
off from centers, approaches, etc. to my destination. I have been put "in
the system" along the way.

By the very first controller.



How do controllers do that so the handoff
happens?

Very similar to IFR aircraft. I put in N number, Destination, Type and
Altitude. In that order and hit enter. Out spits a center code.


Does the original entry into the system generate P strips along
the route like an IFR flight?

Yes.



If so, how do they do it so that the flight
is not IFR?

The process I listed above is VFR only. The other way is to use the
other computer and enter a flight plan and use VFR/075 as an altitude.
Either one results in a VFR tag.





Do they "force" the VFR aspect like this thread has been
discussing?


They both result in a VFR tag and strips.





Is the handoff automatic,


It is automated. Each facility can make the handoff automatic with some
massaging of the software. Normally the controller will have to take a
positive action to effect the handoff. He'll use his electronic cursor,
slew out and enter on the aircraft and hit enter.



or does it get coordinated by land
line, or both?

It can always be manually handed off via the landline.




But if the VFR friend requested FF, it would be "opened" and the
controllers would have the strip all along the route, right?

Yep.