Taking newbies flying...

Peter Clark wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:12:40 -0500, TxSrv wrote:


Oh, my. A private aircraft flight, not involving terrorism? A
federal criminal statute may exist, so if so, please cite it for
us, to prove you know how to research and understand the law.
Cite two numbers with "USC" in the middle. Forget state law; a
generic statute should fit, but it has nothing specifically to do
with pilots, airplanes, or maritime law.


Just to ask, is 49 USC 46504 restricted to commercial ops?

It would appear to apply to "any civil aircraft"

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia...9/crm01405.htm

Peter Clark wrote:

Just to ask, is 49 USC 46504 restricted to commercial ops?

No, and apparently that one's a winner, as long as the
"interference" can be proven. However, a prosecution guideline
document on DOJ's web site is worded such that airline or at
least charter aircraft are the target of this statute. If indeed
Congressional intent is airlines, an indictment might be tossed
by the Court. It's further not a federal crime if DOJ won't
prosecute. If only the pilot and offending pax are on board,
prosecution will be difficult w/o witnesses. If witnesses and
the pilot regains control and lands like a C-172 safely, federal
prosecution doesn't seem called for nor is jail sentence assured.
State law can likely prosecute also, preferably if an assault on
the pilot, or a crash, or dangerous buzzing flight occurred.

F--

Me too. I used to have a sailplane, and you get used to constant turning,
often at high angles of bank. It never caused me any trouble. Until one day
when a friend offered me a ride in his Blanik two-place sailplane. After a
few minutes I thought I was gonna die, until I asked for the controls for a
minute. That allowed me to last long enough to get on the ground. I often
let newbies follow along or fly on straight and level flight. Just holding
the controls and making or following the small movements to stay straight
and level can help.

Here it is some 30 years later and the only time I've ever gotten
nauseated in an airplane since was riding in the back of an Arrow while
somebody else flew it. But I've never puked. There's a few times I
almost **** my pants but that's a different story.

Now, with newbies, I give my best airline ride. I figure any fool can
jerk an airplane around but it takes talent to be smooth. But I don't
explain everything in advance... I just do what needs to be done and
answer questions as they come up. I haven't lost a passenger yet or had
anybody refuse to ride with me a second time.

TxSrv writes:

Oh, my. A private aircraft flight, not involving terrorism?

A private aircraft is not special in this respect.

A federal criminal statute may exist, so if so, please cite it for
us, to prove you know how to research and understand the law.

49 USC 46504 defines interference with the flight crew of an aircraft
as a felony (maximum of 20 years, unless a weapon is involved, in
which case the maximum is life).

49 USC 46318 provides a civil penalty for similar actions.

49 USC 46502 defines exercising control of an aircraft by force as a
felony (air piracy), here again it's 20 years maximum, or
life/execution if a death occurs.

Cite two numbers with "USC" in the middle.

Done.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Peter Clark writes:

Just to ask, is 49 USC 46504 restricted to commercial ops?

No.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 02:11:49 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote

My first career was as a dive instructor and I've been out in 12 foot seas
myself, although in a bigger (35') boat.

12 foot seas in deep water is a lot different than in 18' deep water. The
steepness of the wave, because of how close the waves are to each other makes a
huge difference.

12 waves on the ocean is just starting to be good sailing. On Western Lake
Erie, 12 foot makes for ...

12' on Lake Eirie,or Huron for that matter? The first trought would
stick you in the mud and the first wave would bury you in it.


Not so good! g
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:04:20 -0500, "LWG"
wrote:

Me too. I used to have a sailplane, and you get used to constant turning,
often at high angles of bank. It never caused me any trouble. Until one day
when a friend offered me a ride in his Blanik two-place sailplane. After a
few minutes I thought I was gonna die, until I asked for the controls for a
minute. That allowed me to last long enough to get on the ground. I often
let newbies follow along or fly on straight and level flight. Just holding
the controls and making or following the small movements to stay straight
and level can help.

I can do aerobatics, but I do not ride well:-)) Hanging onto the
controls does little to help. I have to be the one doing the maneuvers
for my sense of balance to be happy. Otherwise I can turn a beautiful
shade of green in a hurry.


Here it is some 30 years later and the only time I've ever gotten
nauseated in an airplane since was riding in the back of an Arrow while
somebody else flew it. But I've never puked. There's a few times I
almost **** my pants but that's a different story.

Now, with newbies, I give my best airline ride. I figure any fool can
jerk an airplane around but it takes talent to be smooth. But I don't
explain everything in advance... I just do what needs to be done and
answer questions as they come up. I haven't lost a passenger yet or had
anybody refuse to ride with me a second time.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote

12' on Lake Eirie,or Huron for that matter? The first trought would
stick you in the mud and the first wave would bury you in it.

With 18 foot depth, a 12 foot wave would leave 12 feet depth in the trough, and
the crest would have you with 24 ffet of water under you.

Our boat only drew about 6 feet, to the keel. Very possibe; I was there. It
was the roughest I have ever seen the lake, in 10 years of sailing on the lake.

I love sailing in waves of up to 6 feet. That just means there is enough wind
to really boogie! g

Over 60 knots of "breeze" is a bit too much, though.
--
Jim in NC

Sometimes, you just can't tell...

I have always prided myself on flying as gently and conservatively with all
my passengers, especially my kids. My older boy has always been a little
queasy while I was flying. I tried all the usual tricks- ginger, dramamine,
electronic wrist band, and nothing really took care of the problem. I let
him fly straight and level, and he was okay with that, but flying was too
uncomfortable for him to be fun.

So today I took him up. It was an unusual day in the East, no turbulence and
excellent visibility. He asked if we could do some "high G" stuff. I said
okay, let's try some steep turns. He had been following alone on the
controls all along, but I took over and cranked it into a 45 degree turn (I
was pleasantly surprised as the altimeter stayed pegged, since it's been
awhile) and then rolled into a similar turn in the other direction. He
loved it! I said, okay, see that long straight road, let's drop down a
little and we'll do some S turns. Then we climbed up and did some stalls,
and then some steep turns around a point.

So, we went through some basic but vigorous airwork, and he enjoyed every
minute, much more than when I was trying to act line an airline pilot. In
some rare cases, there is such a thing as being too gentle. I guess the
real trick is knowing when those are.

I have a similar thing with my two kids. My daughter can handle a steep
turn, anything positive G's but push over the top and get her light in
the seat and she doesn't like it. My son however is the opposite, he
loves doing negative G things including making a notepad float off his
lap. He tries to get me to do that with mom in the plane but I'm
smarter than that.

I guess it depends on what the person expects, and what they enjoy.

LWG wrote:
Sometimes, you just can't tell...

I have always prided myself on flying as gently and conservatively with all
my passengers, especially my kids. My older boy has always been a little
queasy while I was flying. I tried all the usual tricks- ginger, dramamine,
electronic wrist band, and nothing really took care of the problem. I let
him fly straight and level, and he was okay with that, but flying was too
uncomfortable for him to be fun.

So today I took him up. It was an unusual day in the East, no turbulence and
excellent visibility. He asked if we could do some "high G" stuff. I said
okay, let's try some steep turns. He had been following alone on the
controls all along, but I took over and cranked it into a 45 degree turn (I
was pleasantly surprised as the altimeter stayed pegged, since it's been
awhile) and then rolled into a similar turn in the other direction. He
loved it! I said, okay, see that long straight road, let's drop down a
little and we'll do some S turns. Then we climbed up and did some stalls,
and then some steep turns around a point.

So, we went through some basic but vigorous airwork, and he enjoyed every
minute, much more than when I was trying to act line an airline pilot. In
some rare cases, there is such a thing as being too gentle. I guess the
real trick is knowing when those are.