Multiengine Rating

yah.. that's a trolls response.. but for those out there that already know
how to fly..
a SIM when USED PROPERLY with a QUALIFIED INSTRUCTOR and replicates the
aircraft to be flown
can be used to practice Check List Items, Systems Knowledge and Procedures

My First "SIM" was a card board mock up of the Navigator crew station on the
B-52, so We could practice checklists and know where all the 100 switches
and dials were. The next "Sim" was a "radar" trainer with a large glass
board that would replicated a radar scope and feed images to the radar (we
are talking 1970s technology), the T10 Trainer.

Oh, I should not forget the "cardboard box" solar system SIM for learning
how to use a sextant and take "Cel Shots"

My Last SIM, was the full motion B-1 Weapons System Trainer.
BT

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Mortimer Schnerd, RN writes:

We did most of the training in a multi sim, then went for a couple
of flights in a Seminole.

Why waste time in a sim? It has nothing to do with real flying. I
know this because experts here have told me so.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and you'll descend to the
single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The Aztec is 6000 ft.
Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.

Since this is usenet and nitpicking is all the rage... the above is not
quite correct. Service ceiling is the altitude at which you can no longer
climb faster than something like 100 fpm. If you're above the service
ceiling when you lose the engine you will probably be able to maintain
something somewhat higher, like maybe 6005 feet...

.... and if you actually "loose" an engine, you'll be able to maintain an
even higher altitude, as you won't have the weight and drag of that
engine any more.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:



I can't remember either, mainly because I never had to worry about it. As a
flatland pilot, I was more concerned with the PITA hand pumping of the gear and
the flaps if I lost the critical engine (which I think was the right one... it's
been 16 years since I flew one). Pretty much any altitude at all would be
enough to stay clear of obstacles on the routes I flew.

Oh yes, I forgot about the hand pumping. The critical engine is the left
one, and also the pump supplying hydraulic pressure for the gear and
flaps was driven by the left engine. Fortunately, I didn't have to deal
with that in the real engine out. The more I think about it the more I
think that 5000 feet is too optimistic for the single engine service
ceiling in the Geronimo. Anybody know what it is for the unmodified Apache?

"Jose" wrote in message
et...
... and if you actually "loose" an engine, you'll be able to maintain an
even higher altitude, as you won't have the weight and drag of that
engine any more.

Pitty the guy that that engine "finds".
Imagine the insurance claims the airplane owner AND the engine finder would
have.
"Yep, I lost an engine"
"Sorry, that's not covered under your policy"
"No, I actually LOST the engine, it's GONE."
hmmmm
Jim

If you want the TSIO 541, get a Duke. The Duke flies very
well and is as tough as nails.

Duchess on floats would be a nice seaplane trainer, doors on
both sides so you can dock. Plenty of rudder and elevator,
so it should not need extra fins. More power would be nice,
the 180 hp is marginal.

The 58TC has a gross weight of 6200 pounds, the straight 58
has a GW of 5400 pounds. The 58P has the 6200 pound gross
weight but the empty weight is about 400 ponds more than the
58TC.

In fact, if the 58TC had an STC for a IO 720, it would be a
great low altitude performer.



"Kingfish" wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| For those who do not know, the BE58TC is a Beech Baron
with
| the wings and engines of a 58P but the fuselage of the
| straight 58. It has the 6200 pound gross weight and
weights
| 400 pounds less than the 58P. So it carries 400 pounds
more
| payload and performs very well in the 10-12,000 foot
range
| without demanding the pilot be on oxygen.
|
| But I'd really like a Duchess on floats with 200-220 hp
| engines.
|
| Duchess? Floats? cocks head Uuuhhhhh???
|
| IIRC the real speedster of the Baron family was the BE56TC
with the
| 380hp Lycs... although I'm not sure if the 58P might have
been a few
| ka-nots faster at altitude though.
|

FAR 135 requires that gross weight be adjusted so the SE SC
is at or higher than the MEA or the aircraft must be flown
under the single-engine IFR rules with VFR descent always
possible.



"Jim" wrote in message
...
| That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and
you'll descend to the
| single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The
Aztec is 6000 ft.
| Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.
| Jim
|
| "Morgans" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "RomeoMike" wrote
|
| That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got
my multi in one of
| those
| and later had a real engine out experience (right one)
on a cross
| country
| with my family.
| Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.
|
| What was the approximate single engine service ceiling?
(if that is the
| right way to say it for multis)
| --
| Jim in NC
|
|
|
|

50 fpm for multiengine with an engine inop.


"BDS" wrote in message
t...
|
| "Jim" wrote
|
| That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and
you'll descend to the
| single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The
Aztec is 6000 ft.
| Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.
|
| Since this is usenet and nitpicking is all the rage... the
above is not
| quite correct. Service ceiling is the altitude at which
you can no longer
| climb faster than something like 100 fpm. If you're above
the service
| ceiling when you lose the engine you will probably be able
to maintain
| something somewhat higher, like maybe 6005 feet...
|
| BDS
|
|

If all you have is the single hydraulic pump, you select
gear and flaps up before you feather the engine and while
you are pulling the hand lever out. The windmilling engine
will pump the gear and flaps most of the way saving a little
time. You select flaps up, then the gear. The flaps will
pause while the gear retracts and then finish.

Dual pumps were a popular option on privately flown
airplanes, but schools liked the lower cost and the extra
training.


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
message
...
| RomeoMike wrote:
| I don't remember exactly, but something like 5000 ft.
for the Geronimo
| comes to mind. I have a copy of a copy of the POH, so
the altitude
| performance chart is unreadable. I aways figured I could
fly on one
| engine in low elevation areas, but in the mountainous
west, particularly
| on a non-standard day, forget it.
|
|
| I can't remember either, mainly because I never had to
worry about it. As a
| flatland pilot, I was more concerned with the PITA hand
pumping of the gear and
| the flaps if I lost the critical engine (which I think was
the right one... it's
| been 16 years since I flew one). Pretty much any altitude
at all would be
| enough to stay clear of obstacles on the routes I flew.
|
|
|
| --
| Mortimer Schnerd, RN
| mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
|
|

"Jim" wrote in message
...
That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and you'll descend to the
single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The Aztec is 6000 ft.
Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.

I seem to remember that when the prototype twin Diamond came out, the SESC
was something ridiculously low, like 1800 feet. You couldn't make it over a
tree at that altitude, even in the East!

They improved that, a great bit, for the current model! g
--
Jim in NC

If you're flush with cash, there's also the Aztec Nomad conversion... doors
on both sides. Not sure how fun docking a low wing would be.
Jim

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
If you want the TSIO 541, get a Duke. The Duke flies very
well and is as tough as nails.

Duchess on floats would be a nice seaplane trainer, doors on
both sides so you can dock. Plenty of rudder and elevator,
so it should not need extra fins. More power would be nice,
the 180 hp is marginal.

The 58TC has a gross weight of 6200 pounds, the straight 58
has a GW of 5400 pounds. The 58P has the 6200 pound gross
weight but the empty weight is about 400 ponds more than the
58TC.

In fact, if the 58TC had an STC for a IO 720, it would be a
great low altitude performer.



"Kingfish" wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| For those who do not know, the BE58TC is a Beech Baron
with
| the wings and engines of a 58P but the fuselage of the
| straight 58. It has the 6200 pound gross weight and
weights
| 400 pounds less than the 58P. So it carries 400 pounds
more
| payload and performs very well in the 10-12,000 foot
range
| without demanding the pilot be on oxygen.
|
| But I'd really like a Duchess on floats with 200-220 hp
| engines.
|
| Duchess? Floats? cocks head Uuuhhhhh???
|
| IIRC the real speedster of the Baron family was the BE56TC
with the
| 380hp Lycs... although I'm not sure if the 58P might have
been a few
| ka-nots faster at altitude though.
|