Iowa Aviation Weather...en Espanol

I just went through the process myself (hey, I have been
a citizen for almost a month now! :-))

Well, let me be the first here to offer you a hearty
"Congratulations!"

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

An interesting question, at that. How much money are we really talking about
here? They have some guy, probably, already on the payroll, or maybe even a
computer translator, that translates the site into Spanish. I bet it doesn't
cost all that much compared to their whole budget. They probably spend more
on wastebaskets every month.

Your statement shows a remarkably optimistic (okay, ignorant) view of
how our government bureaucracy functions. Here's how it really goes
down:

1. A new Congressional mandate rolls into the National Weather Service
office: ALL DOCUMENTS MUST NOW BE PUBLISHED IN SPANISH.
2. Head of NWS decrees "Thou shalt translate all weather forecasts
into Spanish."
3. NWS meterologists hold meeting (in Las Vegas, in January) to
discuss the issue. All look at one another blankly -- Who amongst us
speaks Spanish? Answer: No one.
4. Report goes back up the chain of command: No one here can predict
the weather in Spanish!"
5. Head of NWS makes a request for additional bilingual staff,
preferably meteorologists. No one even considers a translator.
6. Government bureacrat in another department evaluates request for
more staff, and determines that this must be a Pay Level 13 job, since
it requires a degree in meteorology. Pay Level 13 starts at $34.00
per hour. Starting pay is $70K per year.
7. Spanish-speaking meteorologists are scarce as hen's teeth, and the
search committee fails to find the required 25 new positions.
Therefore, the pay is increased to Pay Level 18, or $56.00 per hour.
Starting pay is now $116K per year.
8. Suddenly, Spanish-speaking weather forecasters are coming out of
the woodwork. The NWS hires 25 new meteorologists, all of them
Spanish-speaking.
9. The Meteorologist's Union files a grievance, since these new hires
are now making more than the weather forecasters who have been there
since TelStar was launched.
10. To placate the union, all NWS forecasters are raised to Pay Level
18.
11. The NWS is now in a budget crunch, and goes to Congress pleading
for more money. No one tells Congress that the budget crunch was
caused by their mandate to translate everything into Spanish.

....And the beat goes on...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Feb 13, 10:40 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/forecast/Map...DVN&map.x=121&...

(orhttp://tinyurl.com/39s8j5if that URL wraps...)

Does anyone else find it disturbing that the National Weather Service
in the United States is paying out taxpayer money to a government
employee to create a foreign-language web page?

I do not find it disturbing, for three reasons...
1. I don't live in the US nor am I an expatriate.
2. I understand that Spanish is and will continue to be a reasonably
widely spoken language in many parts of the US. It would I expect be
part of the directive of the NWS that it should make weather
information available to as many people as practical, and that means
Spanish is a good idea.
3. As a web developer (programmer, not design), I can tell you that
provided the site was designed right (and from the outside I'd say
it's likely) the translation is a piece of cake, and even the weather
reports linked to are likely automatically translated as they appear
to be in a largely fixed format and easily translated even via a
simple lookup table. As such, the extra cost involved was likely only
at the stage of developing the website, and probably very minimal
(we're talking only a couple of days extra work), I imagine there is
little or no ongoing translation work required.

Yes, you have "an" answer. The reason you think I won't like it is because you know it is probably not objective, thoughtful or un-biased. I am an engineer by training and trade so I like things that are accurate, objective, honest and correct.

What's the question? America's culture and values =have= changed - some
for the better, some for the worse. Culture and values are not
something that can be measured, like air pressure or altitude. People's
reactions to culture and values are not governed by simple laws like
F=ma (except in the degenerate case).

Objective and analytical people disagree with each other - simply being
objective and ayalytical will not guarantee an answer you cotton to.

Just consider for a moment the role of unions 100 years ago, and their
present incarnation. There is a significant adverse change in attitude
right there. Consider the degree of litigiousness - I suppose that is
amenable to measurement and objective analysis (though it is not true
that "all things are equal" - some adjustment is necessary to isolate
the causes).

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Flydive schrieb:


English is the main language in aviation, but local language is accepted
in most Countries


English, French and Russian are the official ICAO languages, IIRC.

In most places in Germany you us English, only on some smaller airfields
you speak German. Same goes for France, I believe.

#m
--
I am not a terrorist http://www.casualdisobedience.com/

What's your definition of a foreign language? (I don't need any
authoritative references).

That's quite a statement, Jose. Who appointed you "Keeper of All
Foreign Language "Knowledge"?

1: It was a question, not a statement. Learn the difference.

2: English (unlike French or Spanish) is not derived from authoritive
references, which is why I don't need one. I'm just looking for the
meaning of the word as used by the speaker. That's what communication
is about.

Face it -- your argument, while obviously heartfelt, is untenable.

Translation: Jay disagrees.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

A "foreign language" in the context of the United States of America
(and in the context of this discussion) is a language that is not
spoken by the majority of people since the country's inception.

Fair enough. (Note - this isn't the only reasonable definition, but
I'll use it in this context)

Since every major founding document, every major newspaper, and (to
bring this discussion into the 21st century) every major American
website was/is published in English, we consider every language other
than English to be "foreign".

1: =You= consider... not =We= consider...

2: The statement does =not= follow, in any case, from the definition
you gave above, which does not refer to founding documents or websites.
It refers to "not spoken by the majority...". I'm sure you can recall
examples of countries where the language of official documents is
different from the language commonly spoken by the majority of the
population. In fact, early England comes to mind.

Your example of such indigenous languages as Lakota and Spanish

It wasn't my example.

They were never considered to be official languages of
the United States, and may therefore be defined as "foreign", both in
fact and in the context of this discussion.

Again, this does not follow from the definition you gave above, which
does not refer to official languages, only to "not spoken by the
majority..." (which, btw, leaves open the question of whether "not
spoken" means "not commonly spoken" or "not able to be spoken")

You get to define the words, but then it is upon you to use those words
according to your own definition.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

8. Suddenly, Spanish-speaking weather forecasters are coming out of
the woodwork. The NWS hires 25 new meteorologists, all of them
Spanish-speaking.

You missed a step. These Spanish-speaking meteorolgists demand
instruments calibrated in Spanish. A procurement offer goes out to all
instrument makers for instruments that can measure Spanish rain, Spainsh
snow, etc...

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

1: =You= consider... not =We= consider...


Who is this "we"... you have a frog in your pocket?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:45:55 -0800, LWG wrote
(in article ):

Exactly! So let's start right now, with this decision. We're behind in our
work.

You may remember my favorite government story. I think in Washington state
there was a regulation that for their mental health patients, a translator
had to be available for every patient for whom English was not their
language of choice. It came to the attention of the administration of the
mental hospitals that a number of their patients spoke Klingon. That's
right -- Klingon. It has a syntax and all the attributes of a language.
Soooo, Washington state started advertising for Klingon interpreters for
their mental hospitals. They didn't go so far as hiring one, and I'm not
really sure why.

An urban legend, see Snopes for that one.

What, before a sniper takes out some suicide bomber in Baghdad, you want to
put it up to a vote of 300 million people, with lots of time for debate?
Oops, he missed. Shall he fire again? Have another debate and take another
vote.

Just how far do you think the voters should micro-manage government?



What is the economic advantage of offering weather reports in additional
languages? Who decide what constitutes "enough speakers?"


You know, that question could be asked of every single decision made by
government.





--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor