AOPA talking rubbish

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 18:54:37 -0800, Bob Fry wrote
(in article ):

"Chris" == Chris writes:

Chris To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy
Chris is not only wrong, it is silly.

A few years ago I was able to fly in France for a bit from a club in a
small town. At that time I estimated the hourly cost to be about
double what I would pay in the US. So certainly more expensive, but
not so only the ultra wealthy can fly.


I guess it all depends on who you call the ultra wealthy. Sure, ordinary
people can afford luxury yachts, too, if they sacrifice everything else. But
such yachts tend to belong to the ultra-wealthy, do they not?

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

In article . com,
"wrxpilot" wrote:

Fuel at $9/hr with about 8 gph fuel burn = $72

But with the exchange rate the way it is now, it costs 25% less in Euros!

I don't have to talk to anyone
or even pay any av-gas taxes because the plane flies using auto gas. If I want to travel to California I can file a
flight plan and go anytime and just about anyplace. This is definitely one of the amazing freedoms in the good ol' USA.

Certainly, if you choose to file that is your choice, but I do not
feel it is any of the governments business where I am or where I am
going... I usually pick uncontrolled airports for our stops so all I
do is make the expected Unicom position reports in the airport traffic
area.... I normally fly from Michigan to Florida without filing a
flight plan and without talking to ATC on the radio - unless I
choose to enter a class B for some reason, etc... So, I putz along
about five hundred to a thousand feet above the ground and sightsee
all the way (not much to see in Florida though, boring, so I normally
fly a bit higher)...
I agree, this is the best country in the world... Now if we can only
stop the scum bag politicians from screwing it up any worse than they
have with the so called, Patriot Act...

denny

"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...
I don't have to talk to anyone
or even pay any av-gas taxes because the plane flies using auto gas. If I
want to travel to California I can file a
flight plan and go anytime and just about anyplace. This is definitely
one of the amazing freedoms in the good ol' USA.

Certainly, if you choose to file that is your choice, but I do not
feel it is any of the governments business where I am or where I am
going... I usually pick uncontrolled airports for our stops so all I
do is make the expected Unicom position reports in the airport traffic
area.... I normally fly from Michigan to Florida without filing a
flight plan and without talking to ATC on the radio - unless I
choose to enter a class B for some reason, etc... So, I putz along
about five hundred to a thousand feet above the ground and sightsee
all the way (not much to see in Florida though, boring, so I normally
fly a bit higher)...
I agree, this is the best country in the world... Now if we can only
stop the scum bag politicians from screwing it up any worse than they
have with the so called, Patriot Act...

denny



I have begun to soften in my old age. I used to think that the politicians
were such complete idiots. Now, I'm much more inclined to believe that the
scum bag politicians are just reacting to what they believe their
constituancy wants. Worse, the focus is on the loudest, not necessarily the
biggest.

Have you ever noticed how when people don't know what they are talking about
that they talk non-stop. "Wouldn't you agree that GA is an uncontrolled
danger to the American population? After all, practically anyone can fly one
of these expensive toys into a populated area and kill tens of people. This
clearly needs some legislation that will cost the tax payers billions to
control. More after this break."

The time is past to be a passive pilot. We can no longer just sit back and
enjoy the ride. We must be vocal for the positive side with our neighbors
and the politicians if we are going to survive.
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

On 2007-02-19, C J Campbell wrote:
I guess it all depends on who you call the ultra wealthy. Sure, ordinary
people can afford luxury yachts, too, if they sacrifice everything else. But
such yachts tend to belong to the ultra-wealthy, do they not?

Flying in the US is a lot cheaper than in Europe (but Europe, being
quite a varied place - the costs vary massively across the area. I can
only speak for the area I fly in - northern Ireland, northern England
and the Isle of Man).

I'm not ultra wealthy. I certainly couldn't even dream of affording a
quarter share in a luxury yacht, yet I own a quarter share of an
airplane (an Auster powered by an O-320).

I very very rarely pay a user fee either. No user fees apply to my
aircraft for anything in flight. I don't have to pay for weather
briefings (and here we get to talk to a real meteorologist). There are
landing fees - but all the airfields I fly to are privately owned, and
the owner has to pay his running costs somehow. Large airfields are a
particular bug-bear (some of them charge 'handling fees' for essentially
no service whatsoever). So I don't go to large airfields, and yes - I do
find this annoying and the US approach is *much* better. It is
thankfully mitigated by the fact that small airfields are generally much
closer to where I actually want to be.

I'll stress that flying is much cheaper and better in the US, but there
is affordable GA flying to be had here too. AOPA is right to stir its
members to resist extra charges for US GA (especially as most of the
infrastructure is only needed because of the airlines, and GA would
continue quite happily without it), however, their editorial is a bit
exaggerated. AOPA rails against the popular press for distorting facts -
they ought to practise what they preach!

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

"Denny" wrote in message ups.com...
:I don't have to talk to anyone
: or even pay any av-gas taxes because the plane flies using auto gas. If I want to travel to California I can file a
: flight plan and go anytime and just about anyplace. This is definitely one of the amazing freedoms in the good ol'
USA.
:
: Certainly, if you choose to file that is your choice, but I do not
: feel it is any of the governments business where I am or where I am
: going... I usually pick uncontrolled airports for our stops so all I
: do is make the expected Unicom position reports in the airport traffic
: area.... I normally fly from Michigan to Florida without filing a
: flight plan and without talking to ATC on the radio - unless I
: choose to enter a class B for some reason, etc... So, I putz along
: about five hundred to a thousand feet above the ground and sightsee
: all the way (not much to see in Florida though, boring, so I normally
: fly a bit higher)...
: I agree, this is the best country in the world... Now if we can only
: stop the scum bag politicians from screwing it up any worse than they
: have with the so called, Patriot Act...
:
: denny
:

You know, I thought about that, and could have posted without the 'file a flight plan' comment. It is true, I could fly
to CA without ever even talking to anyone, save checking the weather forecasts. Three or four days of leisurely flying
along - freedom at its best!

"Travis Marlatte" wrote:
I have begun to soften in my old age. I used to think that the
politicians were such complete idiots. Now, I'm much more inclined to
believe that the scum bag politicians are just reacting to what they
believe their constituancy wants. Worse, the focus is on the loudest,
not necessarily the biggest.

The government is composed of politicians that the majority wanted. Ergo,
putting the blame for government failures on the majority of voters is
appropriate. Improving the quality of the constituency is ultimately the
only reasonable long term solution.

The time is past to be a passive pilot. We can no longer just sit back
and enjoy the ride. We must be vocal for the positive side with our
neighbors and the politicians if we are going to survive.

It is long recognized that it is a mistake to be passive and "enjoy the
ride" of liberty as evidenced by the famous quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." (Proper attribution isn't
clear.)

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:00:39 -0000, "Chris" wrote:

Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas Haines
the editor in chief.

"General aviation of the future may look like that in Europe today -
where user fees have existed for years. There only the ultrawealthy fly
anything. The wealthy fly microlights and non of them enjoy the robust
infrastructure that we enjoy in this country."

If ever the cause against user fees gets undermined it is by rubbish like
this being written by so called intelligent people.

European GA is full of ordinary people who love flying, sure it is expensive
(gas at $9 a gallon) but I defy anyone to say that they don't have to make
some sacrifices somewhere to fund their flying especially if you have a
family.

As for the robust infrastructure - well for the most part we don't need it.
Enough people on this forum say FSS is a waste of time and money.

Go to any car park at a local airfield and you will see a range of cars from
the smart to the beat up testifying to the breath of people who fly. Same
here in Europe.

To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy is not only
wrong, it is silly.

Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?

Do you guys believe it?


I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.
--ron

however, their editorial is a bit
exaggerated. AOPA rails against the popular press for distorting facts -
they ought to practise what they preach!


Well, I do not feel the AOPA is distorting... We have forces afoot in
this government that believe big government should make all
decisions.. The Patriot Act (which isn't) was rammed through in a
moment of crises by these forces and we are paying the price for that
as I type...


Nope, AOPA is not distorting even a bit and is thinking clearly...
denny

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:00:39 -0000, "Chris" wrote:

Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas
Haines
the editor in chief.

"General aviation of the future may look like that in Europe today -
where user fees have existed for years. There only the ultrawealthy fly
anything. The wealthy fly microlights and non of them enjoy the robust
infrastructure that we enjoy in this country."

If ever the cause against user fees gets undermined it is by rubbish like
this being written by so called intelligent people.

European GA is full of ordinary people who love flying, sure it is
expensive
(gas at $9 a gallon) but I defy anyone to say that they don't have to make
some sacrifices somewhere to fund their flying especially if you have a
family.

As for the robust infrastructure - well for the most part we don't need
it.
Enough people on this forum say FSS is a waste of time and money.

Go to any car park at a local airfield and you will see a range of cars
from
the smart to the beat up testifying to the breath of people who fly. Same
here in Europe.

To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy is not only
wrong, it is silly.

Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?

Do you guys believe it?


I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.

It depends what you think GA is for. The US has one ATC system, Europe has
nearly 40. Imagine if every state in the US had its own system.

As far as transportation goes mainland Europe has a really good railroad
network. So GA in the form of light aircraft is more for recreation.

Perhaps those in Europe have better things to do than play with airplanes.
For those who do want to do so, it can be affordable.