Boarding with engines running

Mxsmanic wrote:

snip


Incidentally, if you don't like the mundane things, that's all the more reason
to fly a simulator, where you can skip all the boring stuff.


It seems to me, that by flying a simulator only, and swearing away REAL
flight and REAL life, you are missing out on all of REAL life.


In real life, you can't avoid the boring parts and just keep the interesting
parts. You blow several hours of your time in boring activity for a few
minutes in the air, and it costs a fortune. That's not very cost-effective
compared to simulation.

I'll take my "boring", expensive flights in my grumman cheetah over a
cheaper "more exciting" flight in an extra 300 or MU2 on MSFS ANY day...
I would bet most people feel the same. How can you compare real life
to MSFS? Boring parts of flying a REAL plane? Now I have heard everything.




Its like the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words,
similarly one real flight can be worth a thousand simulator flights.


Or it can be a waste of time.

Sitting in front of a computer for hours on end pretending to be flying
with no plans to ever fly a real plane sounds like a perfect definition
of a waste of time...



I have more time than money

Obviously you have a lot of time on your hands. I know lots of people
who have little money who fly. I think there is more to it than that.

On Feb 23, 6:42 pm, "gpsman" wrote:
On Feb 23, 8:04 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

Is it safe/advisable to board a small single- or twin-engined aircraft while
the prop(s) and engine(s) are turning?

Engine/s, yes. Prop/s, no.

Its very common when I hop off the turbo prop from SFO to SMF that the
right engine is running and the prop is turning. Since we board from
the left side the airline does not appear to care.

-Robert

Tim writes:

It seems to me, that by flying a simulator only, and swearing away REAL
flight and REAL life, you are missing out on all of REAL life.

You have your preferences, and I have mine. You should not assume that real
flying is unconditionally preferable to simulated flying. If that were true,
there would be very few simmers and a lot more pilots.

I'll take my "boring", expensive flights in my grumman cheetah over a
cheaper "more exciting" flight in an extra 300 or MU2 on MSFS ANY day ...

That's your choie.

I would bet most people feel the same.

I wouldn't. There are a lot more people playing with simulators than flying
for real.

How can you compare real life to MSFS?

It's a simulation, the comparison is implicit.

Boring parts of flying a REAL plane? Now I have heard everything.

There are parts that are boring. Sitting for ten hours watching waypoints
drift by can get pretty boring. Some pilots fall asleep.

Sitting in front of a computer for hours on end pretending to be flying
with no plans to ever fly a real plane sounds like a perfect definition
of a waste of time...

To whom? I think it's fun, and relaxing.

Obviously you have a lot of time on your hands.

Not really; but I have no money at all, so I still have more time than money.

I know lots of people who have little money who fly.

They have a lot more money than I do.

I think there is more to it than that.

Certainly. It's a question of money, time, red tape, overhead, regulations,
and many other things. It's a lot of trouble to go to for an experience that
is nearly identical to simulation.

--
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If your prefer simming over RL, you should go back to the sim NG's and leave
the rest of us alone.

Incidentally, if you don't like the mundane things, that's all the more reason
to fly a simulator, where you can skip all the boring stuff.

Actually it depends on what you consider to be "boring stuff". I
consider the entire act of flying in a sim to be boring, the reason
being that it cannot even qualify as a challenging video game. IMO,
the reason for flying in real life is that it is a challenge and
challenges are fun. It is a challenge not because flying is hard, (it
isn't any harder than flying a sim) but because there is a penalty,
sometimes severe and always very real, for almost every mistake you
make. In real life my pulse goes up every time I have to go around
with full flaps with trees looming at the end of the runway but on a
sim I can do the same even while sipping beer. The reason is that the
stakes are different and a sim can never simulate the most important
aspect of real life which is reality. Ironically this very fact also
makes a sim so valuable for certain aspects of training. But would I
swap my racing pulse for the safety and comfort of my simulator?
Never!
Have you ever seen trapeze artists perform without a safety net? It
costs more to watch them perform without safety nets. Why? Because
people pay more when the stakes are real. Similarly it costs more to
fly in real life than in a simulator because the stakes are real.

In real life, you can't avoid the boring parts and just keep the interesting
parts. You blow several hours of your time in boring activity for a few
minutes in the air, and it costs a fortune. That's not very cost-effective
compared to simulation.

Depends on what you mean by cost-effective. I would not trade my 100+
hrs in the air for anything. There is no question that sims are
amazing and can be used as training aids very effectively but they
cannot make me sweat or feel nervous or make my pulse race.. which is
why I don't take them seriously except to marvel at the progress
technology has made.

Viperdoc writes:

If your prefer simming over RL, you should go back to the sim NG's and leave
the rest of us alone.

Why? The activity being simulated is piloting of an aircraft.

--
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Little Endian writes:

Actually it depends on what you consider to be "boring stuff".

Yes.

In my case, I consider going to and from the airport to be boring. I consider
not being close to home at the end of a flight to be hugely inconvenient. I
consider paying $250 an hour for each hour of flight to be very stressful. I
consider having to spend thousands of dollars and trudge through endless
paperwork just to be allowed to fly to be unacceptably onerous. I consider a
requirement that one be in Olympic condition to get a license to be an
unnecessary burden. I consider the inaccessibility of ownership of an
aircraft to be a major disappointment. I consider the possibility of being
killed to be an uncomfortably high risk. I consider the absence of bathrooms
on some aircraft to be a major inconvenience.

These are some of the reasons why I fly in simulation. Simulation preserves
most of the parts I like, while eliminating the parts I don't.

Lots of people engage in simulation of lots of things, for similar reasons.
Many people engage in combat simulations, for example, because real combat has
too many disadvantages.

I consider the entire act of flying in a sim to be boring, the reason
being that it cannot even qualify as a challenging video game.

Interesting. I find most video games boring ... except realistic simulations.
The games I like most are flight simulation, the Sims, and Sim City. Standard
FPS games leave me creaking with boredom in only a few seconds.

IMO, the reason for flying in real life is that it is a challenge and
challenges are fun.

Flying is a challenge in simulation, too. I'm surprised by how many people
cannot successfully take off or land in a simulator. This includes some
pilots, or at least the ones who have become dependent on physical sensations
(tin-can pilots and the like).

It is a challenge not because flying is hard, (it
isn't any harder than flying a sim) but because there is a penalty,
sometimes severe and always very real, for almost every mistake you
make.

Some people enjoy risking their lives; others find it an obstacle to
enjoyment.

In real life my pulse goes up every time I have to go around
with full flaps with trees looming at the end of the runway but on a
sim I can do the same even while sipping beer.

Simulation only works if you take it seriously.

I'll even go so far as to say that people who consistently treat simulation as
mere gaming may also treat real flight the same way, because this has its
basis in their personality. The same type of personality that blows off
checklists in simulation because "it's not real life, anyway," may also do the
same thing in real life, with some similar dismissal as rationalization.

Conversely, someone who can force himself to take simulation seriously--even
knowing that it's not real--should also be able to force himself to do things
by the book in real life, even when those things seem unnecessary.

The reason is that the
stakes are different and a sim can never simulate the most important
aspect of real life which is reality.

Reality might also be the least desirable part of the experience.

People read books and watch movies about things that they would never wish to
experience in real life. They enjoy reading about them and watching them, but
they don't want any reality behind it.

But would I swap my racing pulse for the safety and comfort of my simulator?
Never!

I find a racing pulse to be a distraction. There is much about flying to
appreciate, and having one's thoughts clouded by adrenalin ruins many of those
things. It's hard to appreciate the beauty of the Rocky Mountains when you
are hurtling towards them uncontrollably.

Have you ever seen trapeze artists perform without a safety net? It
costs more to watch them perform without safety nets. Why? Because
people pay more when the stakes are real. Similarly it costs more to
fly in real life than in a simulator because the stakes are real.

No, it costs more in real life than in a simulator simply because it is real
life, and the expensive parts cannot be deleted.

I'm surprised so many people mention the danger of flying as an attraction.
They must be high in testosterone. Personally, I think that if you feel
yourself at risk or in danger while flying, you're doing something wrong.

I hope airline pilots don't feel this way.

Depends on what you mean by cost-effective. I would not trade my 100+
hrs in the air for anything. There is no question that sims are
amazing and can be used as training aids very effectively but they
cannot make me sweat or feel nervous or make my pulse race.. which is
why I don't take them seriously except to marvel at the progress
technology has made.

So you are a thrillseeker. Quite a few GA pilots seem to be thrillseekers.
But we know what the safety experts say about them, don't we?

In my view, if my pulse is racing and I'm sweating, I've failed as a pilot.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
Viperdoc writes:

If your prefer simming over RL, you should go back to the sim NG's
and leave the rest of us alone.

Why? The activity being simulated is piloting of an aircraft.

There are real pilots on the sim newsgroups that can and do help non-pilots
understand the differences between real life flying and simulated flying.
If there were no newsgroups for discussing flying simulations you might be
within reason to discuss that subject here. But since there are at least
two newsgroups that I know of where MS Flight Simulator is directly on
topic per their charters, you really have no plausible rationale to
continue to raise such topics here.

Jim Logajan writes:

There are real pilots on the sim newsgroups that can and do help non-pilots
understand the differences between real life flying and simulated flying.

There's nothing magic about being a real pilot, despite what pilots like to
believe. I know that it irritates them to face this.

If there were no newsgroups for discussing flying simulations you might be
within reason to discuss that subject here. But since there are at least
two newsgroups that I know of where MS Flight Simulator is directly on
topic per their charters, you really have no plausible rationale to
continue to raise such topics here.

Fortunately, I don't need to justify my posting preferences to you or anyone
else.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:

In my view, if my pulse is racing and I'm sweating, I've failed as a
pilot.

Don't worry, you don't have a pulse. You've failed as a ****ing human
being.
Now just go away, find some other virtual sandbox to play in..........