Boarding with engines running

Gary writes:

And don't think for a moment that the pretend controllers give a rats
ass about how long you leave the simulated plane on the pretend ramp
while boarding imaginary passengers.

Actually they do, although it depends somewhat on the controller.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Have a conversation with you?

Only if they are willing to scream for the duration.

Oh, how cute! You actually think the microphones on the headsets are only
for talking to atc? Ah, children say the darndest things!
The microphones are voice activated, and whatever you say, at normal talking
volume is heard in each of the passengers headsets.
Got any other completely negative excuses that are completely irrelevant?
Crash Lander

Crash Lander writes:

You really don't socialise much do you.

Not if I can help it.

You'll find that your conversation
whilst mid flight would be vastly different to a conversation in your
bedroom, or wherever your computer is, particularly if the conversation
participants had never flown before.

Maybe. So what? As I've said, I'm not going to pay $250 an hour just to chat
with friends.

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Crash Lander writes:

You just don't know the right girls!

I just don't know the wrong girls.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Crash Lander writes:

You just don't know the right girls!

I just don't know the wrong girls.

Meh! Tomaytoes - Tomartoes!
Crash Lander

Crash Lander writes:

Oh, how cute! You actually think the microphones on the headsets are only
for talking to atc?

If they have headsets. Do you keep a headset for every seat in your aircraft?
That's $4000 for a Baron.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
If they have headsets. Do you keep a headset for every seat in your
aircraft?
That's $4000 for a Baron.

How many seats is that? 6? plus to in the cockpit? That's 8 headsets. You'd
have a decent set for the pilot, a reasonable set for co-pilot, and second
hand $200 jobs for the passengers! That's nowhere near $4000. If you carried
passengers regularly, yes, you'd carry the headsets, otherwise, as a pilot,
with presumable a reasonable relationship with other pilots from the same
airfield, I'm sure you could rustle up a few loan sets for your passengers.
Most aircraft you buy will come with at least 1 set anyway!
Crash Lander

Mxsmanic wrote:
I live in Paris, which is hardly a bog.

Well, I'll not offer my opinions on that.

There are 14 airports alone in the Paris metropolitan area, and Orly is
like a hop, skip, and a bus ride away. I can't be arsed to put the
effort in for you. Help yourself, and all that.

You have a large airport right in the middle of town, as well as a number of
others within reasonable distance. And you have that nice Van Nuys airport
for GA.

Ha, I'm just trying to imagine the (very colorful) language the LAX
controllers would use to tell me that my landing clearance was denied;
they get mad enough when you encroach on their outlying space, much less
trying to use it whilst the 744's fly past.

And, Van Nuys isn't all that great for GA training. It's right up
against and under Class C to boot, and damned busy with lots of mixed
traffic, and only two runways. Makes for a hell of a ramp dance, keeping
away from the jet blasts, but otherwise does not offer the environment
conducive to real learning.

It would have to be quite a comfortable aircraft.

It's not exactly an Iron Maiden, if that's what you're pointing at. And
yes, the seats do go ALL the way down...

Only if they are willing to scream for the duration.

******** squared! Headsets are mandatory flight gear on my flights,
thanksya. The rental place has them available for interlopers, gratis.

It might be dangerous for them to continually climb to and from the front
seats.

Remember that "you wouldn't want to sit still for three hours" bit in
the last post? Let the "co-pilot" have a go, and rotate at the pit
stops. Do I really have to think this ****e up for you?

If the destination is the thing, they don't need to fly.

Flying *around while at* the destination. And, need I remind you of the
speed and convenience of taking a plane rather than, say, skiing across
the fscking Rockies?

Conversely, pilots who have passed the medical often have occult medical
issues that don't become obvious _until_ a problem arises (usually not in
flight, though, since that is statistically unlikely).

So why worry about it? :P

Besides, medicals aren't excuses to skip regular checkups with your
normal physician, which *DOES* pick up this sort of thing.

Unless you have one of the conditions on that arbitrary list. Just being
color blind can exclude you, even though color vision is almost insignificant
for piloting.

What are you ****ing smoking?

If you're red/green colorblind, how can you tell which navigation light
is on which wing, and what direction and heading is that aircraft off
the left wing going?

You don't know? What do you mean you don't know? It's perfectly obvious,
green/red and he's heading towards you. Red/green, away. What do you
mean you can't tell the damn difference between the lights?

Ok, different situation. You go NORDO because some very key widget in
the radio bus decides to burn out. What light signal did the tower just
give you? Was it "clear to land" or "hold and circle"? What do you mean
you can't tell the difference between the lights?

And the list goes on and on. Color is key to flight.

Oh really? Then how can the danger of death be a key attraction to flying for
real, as so many here have claimed?

It's the danger of living that attracts people to flying. The knowledge
that at some random moment, they may break down and actually experience
something worth remembering instead of sitting indoors and pounding away
endlessly at the keyboard.

The danger of death comes with every activity in our lives, from flying
to breathing. The fact you can't recognize this only drives the point
home harder.

If they are truly one with their aircraft, feeling and empathizing with its
every mood and emotion, they'd be able to fly blindfolded.

I can. Can you?

It's part and parcel of unusual attitude training.

Because you say so?

Yes.

If I don't feel it, neither do they; and if they don't feel it, they can't fly
by it. QED.

If you don't feel it, it's because you're not sensitive to it; the
airline pilot's thus being so (rather, MORE sensitive) are able to
maintain aircraft positioning without disturbing or alerting the paying
curmudgeons in the back to their maneuvering. QED.

I already know that workload. You watch the waypoints click by on the MFD or
the FMC.

Thus proving the worth (or lack thereof) of simulation as applicable to
real world operation. QED.

I don't know. What roll rate is required?

I'm sorry, I thought all of flight was formula, and hard fact. I
thought, you being such an expert in the operation of the 737-800 (as
you profess), that you could give me precise performance figures given a
complete scenario. I guess YOU AREN'T UP TO THE TASK.

And the answer is: it's a trick question. You don't know your current
heading, and so you don't know how far away you are from your intended
course. Even if you did know that, the answer is variable (do you start
the rollout immediately from your current heading? Do you start when 30
degrees abeam? Do you start as you pass it?). The real answer is:
enough. Enough so that the aircraft is operated in a smooth manner, with
a minimum of surface deflection, in an expeditious manner, with as
little error as possible. That is flying, and it's VISCERAL, not calculable.

On a 737-800, like most aircraft in its category, you push buttons and turn
knobs to change altitude and heading. You don't fly with the yoke in your
teeth.

That's the way YOU choose to fly the aircraft. The plane is, first and
foremost, flown by hand, by pilots, with training and experience.

Surely, he doesn't need to know what the plane will feel like it's doing?

Correct, in many cases. He just needs to memorize certain procedures that he
won't have time to look up for certain serious emergencies.

Heaven forbid he should find out the lateral-G load of the unexpected
maneuver prevents him from reaching that critical switch which completes
the sequence, eh?

Heaven forbid he should feel the buffet in the controls of the oncoming
stall, which his instrument cluster failed to report to him due to a
blocked static port, eh?

Actually, he's strapped in, so he isn't moving around much, and while many
situations involve significant movements of the aircraft, they are not
necessarily random, jerky movements that might make it difficult to reach the
controls.

Like, say, a high-G turn. QED.


There are a few situations that might restrict the pilot through
acceleration, but there the key is to avoid letting it go that far in the
first place.

Your left engine falls off (wasn't properly reattached by the
groundcrew). You're now 2000+ lbs. out of list, have heavy yaw from the
operating engine, losing all sorts of other systems (like the hydraulics
that move your ailerons and flaps), generally getting a wicked shimmy,
AND you have no idea what just happened.

Guess it was your fault for letting it go that far, eh?

Actually, cabin simulators do use simulated smoke.

Your failure to spot the satire is very telling.

I don't know.

That seems to be a recurring theme with you.

I thought you were experienced enough to make edicts on procedure and
operation? What happened to your burst of confidence?

Emergency procedures are some of the FIRST things you should learn, and
THE FIRST thing you should have memorized before stepping into the
cockpit. Engine out is a big one, because you can loose a compressor to
AOA on takeoff, or if you get a bird, or if your fuel system isn't
configured properly (or not functioning properly in the first place).
Losing an engine means lots of complicated, sometimes counter-intuitive
(and hand-flown) procedures. And you don't ****ing know.

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I promised myself that I wouldn't do intellectual battle with an unarmed
opponent, but in your case, you're already running with scissors, naked
through a field of cactus.

TheSmokingGnu

On Feb 26, 4:50 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
lots of stuff

You are, by far, the best troll I have ever seen. Well Done.

Cheers,

Al, who spends $100 an hour to fly, without a medical and with
virtually no paperwork.

Crash Lander writes:

How many seats is that? 6? plus to in the cockpit? That's 8 headsets.

Six total, for a Baron 58 in club configuration.

You'd have a decent set for the pilot, a reasonable set for co-pilot, and second
hand $200 jobs for the passengers!

My passengers get the same quality I get.

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