PSA: Don't be rude on the radio

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

Last time we "got together", was fairly recently when he posted on the
student group about yanking the fuel to shutoff on takeoff with "his
student" and wanted to know if it was a good idea :-)

Now everything makes a little more sense.

Thanks for pointing out the history.


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...fcecd2c0126ad5

Interesting read. Just what you want in an instructor :-))
Dudley Henriques

On Thu, 10 May 2007 14:20:24 -0500, "Allen"
wrote in :

It also defines "final" as
the term commonly used to mean that an aircraft is on the final approach
course or is aligned with a landing area.


Right. So VFR flights are on final approach at the time they turn
from the Base to Final leg of the landing pattern, and IFR flights at
the FAF. Easy.

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

These poor sharks really take a beating from us humans. I was just
reading the other day that in Australia, at least one expert says to
punch them in the nose when they get too close.

Hey, Dudley, I heard that too. When I was a kid I knew a guy who had been
a surfer-bum in San Diego. He told me that the sharks would chase the
surfboard and if they got too close you'd just kick 'em in the nose.
Except, one time in doing so he fell off the board and ended up more or
less kicking the shark in the mouth and then ending up in the water with
it.

Strangest thing....he gave up surfing, moved to Denver and took up
skydiving. : (Seriously.)

Sounds like my kind of guy :-))
Dudley Henriques

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

I can't comment too much on your experiences, but I will say this:
I've heard more rude and improper radio talk in the last two years
than I had in the previous ten. The rudeness that has invaded our
society is starting to penetrate the cockpit environment, and *that*
is a shame.

It's because we're all getting older (Baby Boom Generation) and we're
becoming Grumpy Old Men... Of course, we also have to balance this with
being Dirty Old Men In Training...

Then again there are some of us out here who completed the DOM training by
age 6
:-)
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
I'd be very interested in actually seeing his CFI certificate number and
knowing his real name for checkup with the FAA. I find it extremely
difficult from his dialog and points of view to envision him as a CFI, but
stranger things have happened I guess :-))

Personally, after that "turn off the fuel" post, I didn't think he was a
real CFI.

The idea of unlilaterally turning a 360 in a busy pattern, struck me as odd.
There are other ways to avoid converging traffic without going heads up with
the guy behind you.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200705/1

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:71fd1e7873b37@uwe...
Dudley Henriques wrote:
I'd be very interested in actually seeing his CFI certificate number and
knowing his real name for checkup with the FAA. I find it extremely
difficult from his dialog and points of view to envision him as a CFI, but
stranger things have happened I guess :-))

Personally, after that "turn off the fuel" post, I didn't think he was a
real CFI.

The idea of unlilaterally turning a 360 in a busy pattern, struck me as
odd.
There are other ways to avoid converging traffic without going heads up
with
the guy behind you.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200705/1

I could be wrong of course, but I just don't see anything that says "CFI" to
me in his posting. Everything about this guy sends me negative signals.
Anyway, just considering what he has posted already, I'd REALLY like to meet
the examiner who gave him a CFI :-)
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...fcecd2c0126ad5

Interesting read. Just what you want in an instructor :-))

Hey, all, I have a question about a comment in the

"Sounds like another stupid instructor trick: practicing engine out
procedure at altitude by actually killing the engine. Could lead to an
'Oh ****!' experience. "

Is that really a stupid instructor trick at altitude? My first instructor
did it during our first cross country work--"Oops. I wonder how that
happened?" Later he said he did it because the examiner would do it on the
checkride. In fact, when the examiner did it on the checkride I reflexively
checked the fuel lever first.

....When he asked me why I didn't go through the whole emergency procedure in
order, I said because I checked the fuel shutoff valve first because it's so
easy for some passenger to accidentally bump it. The rest of the maneuver
started with him saying something like "Okay [implied "smartass"], suppose
that wasn't the problem. What would you do?"

Is this no longer considered good instructional practice?

-c

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

I can't comment too much on your experiences, but I will say this:
I've heard more rude and improper radio talk in the last two years
than I had in the previous ten. The rudeness that has invaded our
society is starting to penetrate the cockpit environment, and *that*
is a shame.

It's because we're all getting older (Baby Boom Generation) and we're
becoming Grumpy Old Men... Of course, we also have to balance this with
being Dirty Old Men In Training...

Then again there are some of us out here who completed the DOM training by
age 6
:-)

You needed TRAINING?

Wow, so different than in Canada. Here he would should coform to the
circuit and join it. Although he could land of an ils, but not cutting
off circuit traffic.

buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

The first time was when I was at a local uncontrolled field with one
of my students to introduce solf-field takeoffs and landings. When we
were turning downwind, I heard a Cirrus call "On the ILS at the outer
marker". I haven't flown any approaches for months, so I had no idea
how exactly far out he was. There were at least two other people in
the pattern, so instead of asking him to give a more accurate position
report, I just went on. Just before I got abeam the numbers on
downwind, the Cirrus guy called 3 miles out, so I told my student to
just do a short approach instead of extending which would have screwed
everyone else up.

I'm looking out the window like crazy to find this Cirrus guy but I
don't see him anywhere. Then suddenly I hear him say in a snappy voice
"Cessna on base at *** do you plan on cutting me off?" Startled, I
looked around but couldn't for the life of me see him. I responded
"uuhh, Cirrus on ILS I don't see you", then he snaps back
sarcastically, "oh 45 seconds before impact..."

I look right in front of me and there he is zooming by. I didn't
realize Cirrus's were so fast. He had to have been going more than 150
knots. I've turned short approaches in front of Seminoles when they
were on 3 mile ILS finals and it has never been a problem...

Anyways, the guy didn't have to be such a huge asshole. A busy pattern
is stressful enough, the ones coming in straight in can at least be a
little helpful, or at the VERY LEAST not act like a little baby when
things don't go their way.

Of the 50 or so times I've been on extended downwind when someone else
in on a 3-10 mile final, I'd say 10 times I went behind them and it
hasn't been a problem, 35 times I've gone behind them and it hasn't
been a problem, and 5 times I messed it up and either cut the person
off, or caused some other disruption. The other 4 times it was just a
simple "sorry about that", or some other professional way of handing
the situation, then forgetting it and moving on. It just makes it that
much harder to shake it off when the person decides to act that way.
Maybe I need to get thicker skin, but that situation had me all worked
up for the rest of the flight, and I admit it hindered my instructing
ability a little.

As a little side note, that same Cirrus guy came today to my home
airport which is even busier. There were like 7 planes already in the
pattern, 3 on 45 for the pattern, and then comes my Cirrus. I
recognized it was him because I remembered the tail number (N903CD).
As soon as he called, tower told him to slow to final approach speed
(which I just had to snicker to myself when I heard that ^_^). About a
minute later I, on an extended downwind, was told to turn base, which
would have put me right in front of the Cirrus. The tower cleared me
for a full stop only (which I've never been issued before, our
controllers are really good at accommodating a bunch of pattern
traffic), and told the Cirrus to break off and enter on the 45 for a
left traffic. After I landed, I switched to ground and just called it
a day. When I got back to the training room, another instructor joked
about how I was "kicked out of the pattern". He asked me of I heard
about the Cirrus who "got ****ed off and left". I said no but I can
only imagine what he actually said...

Anyways, back on topic. Also today, on another flight with another
student, we were coming back on the 45 for a downwind entry. Not too
long after he told me to report established on the downwind, someone's
mic got stuck and all I could hear on the radio was "EEEERRRRRRCHSHH
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" punctuated with my call sign and the words "I'm not
communicating with him", then some more "AAAAAAEERRRRNNNGH". I saw a
plane on downwind which was about to converge with me, a helicopter
which looked like was doing WHO KNOWS WHAT, and someone else on upwind
about to turn crosswind. It looked like I was going to converge with
the plane on downwind, so I just decided to do a 360 where I was
(about a mile before entering downwind). As soon as a break in the
radio screeching appeared, I quickly told tower I'm doing a 360 to
avoid what by then I thought was a clueless student on a solo who
didn't know how to use the radio.

Well as soon as I told tower, a voice came on saying "..and that will
put you right in front of 64 Delta" (or whatever his tail number was).
Apparently there was a plane behind me, but I had no idea. Buy
anyways, he had to do a evasive maneuver also, and he was ticked off.
He came back on and told tower he had to do an evasive to avoid "the
kamikaze" as he called me.

Well guess what, bub? I had to do an evasive maneuver too. Thats an
everyday thing 'round these parts. There are two busy flight schools,
as well as a lot of military activity (a C-130 comes here a few times
a week to do touch and goes, gives us a lot of wake turbulence
avoidance practice ^_^). I had to fly a downwind parallel to him and
then follow him in. I couldn't let my student do the flying because it
was an atypical situation. AND I had to do all this while I'm getting
name-called by some tard out of no-where. It just makes things that
much more frustrating.


So please, don't be a jackass show off on the radio. I actually saw
the second guy climb out his plane after we landed. I saw he had what
looked like his wife in there with him. I imagine he was acting like
that to show off in front of his wife *rolleyes*.

Anyways, just please be mindful of others, especially considering the
environment your in (busy airspace; emergency in the area; whatever it
may be). Just be aware that those snappy one liners may make you look
cool, but they just make others frustrated and more life more
difficult.

I know this post is getting long, but theres one more instance I want
to bring up. When I was getting my multi rating a few months ago, we
went to a towered airport a few miles away to do a few ILS/VOR
approaches. While we were doing the procedure turns and stuff, we
could hear this clueless student pilot entering on a solo cross
country. This guy was a total wreck. First he was 10 miles south; then
he was 5 miles north, then he was over such and such lake which is 15
miles northwest. The controllers at this particular airport aren't
known as the friendliest around, so as you can imagine, the poor guy
wasn't having a good time.

I wasn't really paying attention to what all was being said because I
was focusing on my approaches, but after doing about 3 full ILS/VOR
approaches (procedure turn and all) he still was confused as to where
he was and hadn't landed yet (but I believe was still in the pattern).
We were just doing missed approaches, breaking off well before the
airport area to stay out of the way.

I don't really blame the controller because he was frustrated too, but
it was what my instructor said which I think was worst of all. During
our last approach, he said something to the effect of "Do you want us
to do another low approach so you can handle this guy, or can we do a
touch and go the this next one?"

I just cringed when I heard that. I just can imagine being in his
shoes. The last thing I want to know is that I'm messing not only the
controller's thing, but other pilots as well. We didn't NEED to do a
touch and go, we could have just did our share by helping out with the
low approaches, then moved on. Indirectly telling the poor student how
incompetent he is (which he HAS to already know by then) just helps no
one out. It just makes things worse.

I don't think what my instructor said

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

"Grumman-581" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

I can't comment too much on your experiences, but I will say this:
I've heard more rude and improper radio talk in the last two years
than I had in the previous ten. The rudeness that has invaded our
society is starting to penetrate the cockpit environment, and *that*
is a shame.

It's because we're all getting older (Baby Boom Generation) and we're
becoming Grumpy Old Men... Of course, we also have to balance this with
being Dirty Old Men In Training...

Then again there are some of us out here who completed the DOM training
by age 6
:-)

You needed TRAINING?

It came naturally by age 5. :-)
DH