What I wanted Piper Ceo Bass to say...

If you read my "Gloom" post, you know what the CEO of Piper told us at
the Cherokee Pilots Association annual convention last weekend.

This is what I wanted him to say:

***************************************
Ladies & Gentlemen of the Cherokee Pilots Association:

Thank you for inviting me to speak at your fly-in. I am honored to
appear before Pipers' most loyal and active customers, and have some
great news for you today.

First, I am pleased to announce the introduction of the plane you've
all been waiting for -- the new Arrow V. This plane will be powered
by the Lycoming O-540 engine, have a range of over 1000 nautical
miles, and will cruise at 185 knots.

That's 212 miles per hour, here in America.

This aircraft, while an evolution of the Cherokee line, will be truly
revolutionary. Not only will it be one of the fastest, most
comfortable personal aircraft in the world, it will assure Pipers
position as a general aviation leader for many years to come.

With your help we have given the design of this aircraft great thought
and planning. We have selected the normally aspirated Lycoming engine
(over the injected version) so that you owners may continue to take
advantage of the huge fuel cost savings the Auto Gas STC provides
you.

In my opinion, the more you fly, the better off Piper will be -- and
if you can save a buck a gallon with the mogas STC, you're gonna fly
more.

You will notice that I said it will cruise at "185 knots". I'm sure
that has raised more than a few eye brows here, as few people thought
we could get that kind of speed out of a Cherokee airframe.

Well, it wasn't easy. But that's my next announcement -- because
we're also announcing a Cherokee airframe clean-up program that will
eliminate fully 10% of the parasitic drag on our 30+ year-old Cherokee
design.

To this end, today I am announcing a partnership with the Lopresti
Corporation, and from this day forward all Cherokees will come
equipped with ALL of their speed modifications as standard
equipment.

That's right, all of them -- from the wing-to-fuselage filet to the
stabilator gap seals -- all will be included on each and every
Cherokee.

But there's more -- we're making some major changes in the way we
build the Cherokee line. Today I am announcing that we will be
incorporating flush rivets and a special metal-bonding technology
throughout the airframe. We are also completely redesigning the all-
too-fragile (and draggy) cowling. No aerodynamic speed bumps will be
over-looked on ANY of our Cherokees -- and all will benefit from an
extra 10 to 15 knots in cruise.

With regard to the Arrow V, the Lycoming O-540 will be tuned to make a
clean 250 horsepower, giving it fully 25% more horsepower than its
predecessor. This extra power, combined with all the new airframe
enhancements, will make the Arrow truly competitive with Cirrus and
Columbia, and will absolutely blow away anything Cessna makes today.

Finally -- and this is the one you've ALL been longing to hear, for
many years -- the new Arrow V will incorporate TWO cabin doors,
allowing for easy access and egress. This is an enhancement that
literally every Piper CEO since Pug Piper has heard from the field,
and at last we have heard your call!

Other recent improvements at Piper include better labor relations, and
a full recovery from the hurricanes in 2006. Further, we're looking
at the possibility of using our factory facilities to paint used
aircraft, and planning is in the works for a new Piper bizjet.

But these plans -- while certainly great -- are mere footnotes by
comparison to the new Arrow V -- an aircraft that will enhance Piper's
legacy as THE personal airplane builder for the common man. This
plane will ensure our long-term survival in a very competitive market
for decades to come.

In conclusion, I'd like to thank you all for listening to me speak
today. I know you're all planning on flying home soon, but I hope
you'll be able to delay your departure until after 10 AM tomorrow
morning -- because we're got a little surprise for you all.

As members of the Cherokee Pilots Association, you are Pipers most
loyal, best customers -- and we have decided that there is simply no
better group to introduce our new Arrow V to!

Therefore, tomorrow morning, at 10 AM, our new Arrow V prototype will
making its first public appearance at Grand Glaize Airport. There,
you will be able to see and appreciate what we've done for you -- and
we ask that you take time to meet with our product research team, who
will be asking your opinions of this new bird.

We aim to incorporate any and all good suggestions you might have for
the new Arrow V, since -- after all -- who could possibly know our
products better than you?

Okay, enough speechifying -- I'd like to open it up for questioning
now...who's first?"
***********************************************
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

If you read my "Gloom" post, you know what the CEO of Piper told us at
the Cherokee Pilots Association annual convention last weekend.

This is what I wanted him to say:
[...]
First, I am pleased to announce the introduction of the plane you've
all been waiting for -- the new Arrow V. This plane will be powered
by the Lycoming O-540 engine, have a range of over 1000 nautical
miles, and will cruise at 185 knots
[much droolable stuff snipped]
.....
Okay, enough speechifying -- I'd like to open it up for questioning
now...who's first?"

Are the rumors that we can buy this plane for under $65,000 true? With
the full avionics package with weather and deice in the brochure?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Jun 20, 9:28 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
If you read my "Gloom" post, you know what the CEO of Piper told us at
the Cherokee Pilots Association annual convention last weekend.

This is what I wanted him to say:

***************************************
Ladies & Gentlemen of the Cherokee Pilots Association:

Thank you for inviting me to speak at your fly-in. I am honored to
appear before Pipers' most loyal and active customers, and have some
great news for you today.

First, I am pleased to announce the introduction of the plane you've
all been waiting for -- the new Arrow V. This plane will be powered
by the Lycoming O-540 engine, have a range of over 1000 nautical
miles, and will cruise at 185 knots.

That's 212 miles per hour, here in America.

This aircraft, while an evolution of the Cherokee line, will be truly
revolutionary. Not only will it be one of the fastest, most
comfortable personal aircraft in the world, it will assure Pipers
position as a general aviation leader for many years to come.

With your help we have given the design of this aircraft great thought
and planning. We have selected the normally aspirated Lycoming engine
(over the injected version) so that you owners may continue to take
advantage of the huge fuel cost savings the Auto Gas STC provides
you.

In my opinion, the more you fly, the better off Piper will be -- and
if you can save a buck a gallon with the mogas STC, you're gonna fly
more.

You will notice that I said it will cruise at "185 knots". I'm sure
that has raised more than a few eye brows here, as few people thought
we could get that kind of speed out of a Cherokee airframe.

Well, it wasn't easy. But that's my next announcement -- because
we're also announcing a Cherokee airframe clean-up program that will
eliminate fully 10% of the parasitic drag on our 30+ year-old Cherokee
design.

To this end, today I am announcing a partnership with the Lopresti
Corporation, and from this day forward all Cherokees will come
equipped with ALL of their speed modifications as standard
equipment.

That's right, all of them -- from the wing-to-fuselage filet to the
stabilator gap seals -- all will be included on each and every
Cherokee.

But there's more -- we're making some major changes in the way we
build the Cherokee line. Today I am announcing that we will be
incorporating flush rivets and a special metal-bonding technology
throughout the airframe. We are also completely redesigning the all-
too-fragile (and draggy) cowling. No aerodynamic speed bumps will be
over-looked on ANY of our Cherokees -- and all will benefit from an
extra 10 to 15 knots in cruise.

With regard to the Arrow V, the Lycoming O-540 will be tuned to make a
clean 250 horsepower, giving it fully 25% more horsepower than its
predecessor. This extra power, combined with all the new airframe
enhancements, will make the Arrow truly competitive with Cirrus and
Columbia, and will absolutely blow away anything Cessna makes today.

Finally -- and this is the one you've ALL been longing to hear, for
many years -- the new Arrow V will incorporate TWO cabin doors,
allowing for easy access and egress. This is an enhancement that
literally every Piper CEO since Pug Piper has heard from the field,
and at last we have heard your call!

Other recent improvements at Piper include better labor relations, and
a full recovery from the hurricanes in 2006. Further, we're looking
at the possibility of using our factory facilities to paint used
aircraft, and planning is in the works for a new Piper bizjet.

But these plans -- while certainly great -- are mere footnotes by
comparison to the new Arrow V -- an aircraft that will enhance Piper's
legacy as THE personal airplane builder for the common man. This
plane will ensure our long-term survival in a very competitive market
for decades to come.

In conclusion, I'd like to thank you all for listening to me speak
today. I know you're all planning on flying home soon, but I hope
you'll be able to delay your departure until after 10 AM tomorrow
morning -- because we're got a little surprise for you all.

As members of the Cherokee Pilots Association, you are Pipers most
loyal, best customers -- and we have decided that there is simply no
better group to introduce our new Arrow V to!

Therefore, tomorrow morning, at 10 AM, our new Arrow V prototype will
making its first public appearance at Grand Glaize Airport. There,
you will be able to see and appreciate what we've done for you -- and
we ask that you take time to meet with our product research team, who
will be asking your opinions of this new bird.

We aim to incorporate any and all good suggestions you might have for
the new Arrow V, since -- after all -- who could possibly know our
products better than you?

Okay, enough speechifying -- I'd like to open it up for questioning
now...who's first?"
***********************************************
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

Why don't you email this to Bass and see what he has to say?

Dean

Jay,

if Bass could bend the laws of physics like that, maybe you could have
him tell next week's lottery numbers, too.

This aircraft, while an evolution of the Cherokee line, will be truly
revolutionary. Not only will it be one of the fastest, most
comfortable personal aircraft in the world,

How? Mooney and Columbia are faster than your number, all modern
airframes are way more comfortable.

it will assure Pipers
position as a general aviation leader for many years to come.

It never was that leader, it never will be.

(over the injected version) so that you owners may continue to take
advantage of the huge fuel cost savings the Auto Gas STC provides
you.

One word: Ethanol.

Well, it wasn't easy. But that's my next announcement -- because
we're also announcing a Cherokee airframe clean-up program that will
eliminate fully 10% of the parasitic drag on our 30+ year-old Cherokee
design.

Clean up all you want, you're just not going to get there.

Today I am announcing that we will be
incorporating flush rivets and a special metal-bonding technology
throughout the airframe.

And there you go into a new certification.

This extra power, combined with all the new airframe
enhancements, will make the Arrow truly competitive with Cirrus and
Columbia, and will absolutely blow away anything Cessna makes today.

Uhm, no.

Finally -- and this is the one you've ALL been longing to hear, for
many years -- the new Arrow V will incorporate TWO cabin doors,
allowing for easy access and egress.

Ah, new certification, again.

But these plans -- while certainly great -- are mere footnotes by
comparison to the new Arrow V -- an aircraft that will enhance Piper's
legacy as THE personal airplane builder for the common man.

So how do some enhancements on a 50 year old airframe make it more
attractive than four (Columbia, Cirrus, DA50, Cessna NGP) or more brand
new contemporary designs? And what do you expect the price to be on an
airplane that is already way more complex to build than the ones listed
above? I know you like Piper, but that's just not how the market works.

Look at the sales numbers. The Arrow is currently the lowest selling
Piper aircraft of all - by a huge margin.

Let's assume Piper would manage to do the stuff you suggest AND keep the
price the same. Let's further assume they would get a tenfold increase
of Arrow sales. I guess we can all agree that would be huge, now,
wouldn't it? That would mean 50 Arrow sales per year - a very, very
distant spot way behind Cessna, Cirrus, Diamond and even Columbia.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Let's assume Piper would manage to do the stuff you suggest AND keep the
price the same. Let's further assume they would get a tenfold increase
of Arrow sales. I guess we can all agree that would be huge, now,
wouldn't it? That would mean 50 Arrow sales per year - a very, very
distant spot way behind Cessna, Cirrus, Diamond and even Columbia.


If Piper was really interested in a modern and fast aircraft based
on one of its older aircraft they would start with the Comanche
not the Cherokee. In fact, a company has already designed a
modern composite version (also availabe in fixed gear) which
has amazing performance numbers. Its called the Ravin (checkout
http://www.saravin.com/).

One of the huge stumbling blocks to certifying modern
aircraft is the MASSIVE costs and liabilities involved.
I think the future of GA (as we know it) will be in
experimental designs.

http://www.ravinaircraftusa.com/

On 6/20/2007 11:28:19 PM, Jay Honeck wrote:

If you read my "Gloom" post, you know what the CEO of Piper told us at
the Cherokee Pilots Association annual convention last weekend.
snip

You are certainly quite loyal to the Piper name.

--
Peter

Sounds like they need to buy the Bonanza line.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:28:18 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote:

If you read my "Gloom" post, you know what the CEO of Piper told us at
the Cherokee Pilots Association annual convention last weekend.

This is what I wanted him to say:

***************************************
Ladies & Gentlemen of the Cherokee Pilots Association:

Thank you for inviting me to speak at your fly-in. I am honored to
appear before Pipers' most loyal and active customers, and have some
great news for you today.

First, I am pleased to announce the introduction of the plane you've
all been waiting for -- the new Arrow V. This plane will be powered
by the Lycoming O-540 engine, have a range of over 1000 nautical
miles, and will cruise at 185 knots.

The Turbo Arrow claims to have a max cruise of 177kts, so that's not
far from your request.
http://www.risingup.com/planespecs/i...plane423.shtml

Turbo lance can do 189kts, but the range is ~700nm.
http://www.risingup.com/planespecs/i...plane409.shtml

I have wondered why there was not a retract version of the 235. I
suppose there is not enough room in the nose area for a big engine and
the nose gear.

A few companies (RAM, P.Ponk) have gone the STC route to improve
engines on existing airframes.... Perhaps that would be a way to
achieve higher HP on Arrow airframes.

On a similiar note... I once saw a Cherokee 235 for sale that had
engine mods to make either 250 or 260HP (can't remember which). When
I asked about it - the seller dodged the question if he had an STC for
the change, so I skipped on the plane.

Why don't you email this to Bass and see what he has to say?

It's already made it there, I'll wager.

My comments have ricocheted around the internet, apparently making it
into all the top-dog's email boxes. The firestorm over his speech
last weekend has really lit up the Cherokee Chat (and my email box)...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"