B-52 Re-engining?

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote

If you want a URL, do a google search.

I did. It said effective rudder use is required for a cross-wind
take-off, and to
not use the tiller over about 30 knots accelerating to keep the aircraft
centered.

What aircraft?

Another page talks about slip techniques.

I am responding to a buffarilla pilot and a 747-400F pilot, do you suppose
they are posting to me because there is a URL source for the information? I
am not sure what you expect here Mr. Storey, but your presentation has been
quite unprofessional.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

The pilot flying keeps his feet on the rudder
pedals when hand-flying the aircraft.

An unsafe practice, for modern airliners.

Why does Boeing and the FAA advocate such an "unsafe practice," then?


Rudder is used to deliberately
un-coordinate the aircraft when taking off and landing with a crosswind.

No, use of the rudder is explicity unsafe.

It's Ex-Lax time! You're so full of crap, it's taken over your brain! Use of
rudder is absolutely required for crosswind takeoffs and landings, else the
airplane will run off the side of the runway. Seldom will an airplane track
absolutely straight down the centerline even with no wind or a direct
headwind -- on crowned runways especially!

Even autoland
uses opposite rudder to convert from a crab to a slip, usually at 150'
AGL.

Nice for a DC-9.

Just as nice for a 747!


No, there is no question whatsover that the AA pilots were in violation of
that flight rule. What came out of the A-300 acident was both large
transport manufacturers saying pilots should not use the rudder under normal
operations.

Yet another total BS Tarverism for the archives...

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

So one doesn't use rudder when doing a manual turn as one does on every
other aircraft made?

The YAW damper moves the rudder for the airplane, no human workload is
involved.

The yaw damper does move the rudder, but its function is not to keep the ball
centered. Its function is to reduce yaw oscillations around the [normally 0]
slip angle induced by the current airplane trim. Only if there is an active
3-axis autopilot will the rudder be trimmed automatically. There is NO
automatic rudder trim in the 747-400 except during autoland operations below
1500' AGL.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote
"Gene Storey" wrote
"Tarver Engineering" wrote

If you want a URL, do a google search.

I did. It said effective rudder use is required for a cross-wind
take-off, and to
not use the tiller over about 30 knots accelerating to keep the aircraft
centered.

What aircraft?

757, I forget the model number.

Another page talks about slip techniques.

I am responding to a buffarilla pilot and a 747-400F pilot, do you suppose
they are posting to me because there is a URL source for the information? I
am not sure what you expect here Mr. Storey, but your presentation has been
quite unprofessional.

The hi-jacking of this B-52 thread, for your monolith about dead rudder pedals
in airliners seems to be about par for your game.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

So one doesn't use rudder when doing a manual turn as one does on
every
other aircraft made?

The YAW damper moves the rudder for the airplane, no human workload is
involved.

The yaw damper does move the rudder, but its function is not to keep the
ball
centered. Its function is to reduce yaw oscillations around the [normally
0]
slip angle induced by the current airplane trim.

The YAW damper also co-ordinates turns and cancels fugoids. It is not an
optional thing, except where much vomiting is considered desirable.

Only if there is an active
3-axis autopilot will the rudder be trimmed automatically.

You are as usual, attepting to change the subject, Weiss.

There is NO
automatic rudder trim in the 747-400 except during autoland operations
below
1500' AGL.

The automatic YAW damper is always there on the 747-400.

Please expalin what automatic rudder trim has to do with this discussion.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote
"Gene Storey" wrote
"Tarver Engineering" wrote

If you want a URL, do a google search.

I did. It said effective rudder use is required for a cross-wind
take-off, and to
not use the tiller over about 30 knots accelerating to keep the
aircraft centered.

What aircraft?

757, I forget the model number.

And a URL like that has what value?

Another page talks about slip techniques.

I am responding to a buffarilla pilot and a 747-400F pilot, do you
suppose
they are posting to me because there is a URL source for the
information? I
am not sure what you expect here Mr. Storey, but your presentation has
been
quite unprofessional.

The hi-jacking of this B-52 thread, for your monolith about dead rudder
pedals
in airliners seems to be about par for your game.

The B-52 pilot made a specific statement about automatic control systems in
757s compensating for an engine out condition, in a manner to be installed
on his machine. Then he asked a specific question electric automatic
systems and I am answering it. If you feel that you are somehow a peer in
this discussion, then I am afraid you have joined those on the usenet that
have taken leave of their senses.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

The pilot flying keeps his feet on the rudder
pedals when hand-flying the aircraft.

An unsafe practice, for modern airliners.

Why does Boeing and the FAA advocate such an "unsafe practice," then?

You need to know how to fly the airplane when it is broke. I think
simulator time would be a much better place to play "hand fly the airplane"
than during revenue.

Rudder is used to deliberately
un-coordinate the aircraft when taking off and landing with a
crosswind.

No, use of the rudder is explicity unsafe.

It's Ex-Lax time! You're so full of crap, it's taken over your brain!
Use of
rudder is absolutely required for crosswind takeoffs and landings, else
the
airplane will run off the side of the runway. Seldom will an airplane
track
absolutely straight down the centerline even with no wind or a direct
headwind -- on crowned runways especially!

Sure, but then you need to leave the rudder alone. There are exceptions to
using the rudder, but in the general case, a modern airliner breaks when the
operator panics while using the rudder. (ie A-300 USAir 427) The worst part
about the A-300 crash was that AA had been teaching heavy rudder use in the
simulator, thereby increasing the probability that the event would occur.

It is much the same as the small GA pilot who gets in a wrestling match with
his yoke, intead of pushing the AP disconnect switch.

Even autoland
uses opposite rudder to convert from a crab to a slip, usually at 150'
AGL.

Nice for a DC-9.

Just as nice for a 747!

Sure, an '68 design.

No, there is no question whatsover that the AA pilots were in violation
of
that flight rule. What came out of the A-300 acident was both large
transport manufacturers saying pilots should not use the rudder under
normal
operations.

Yet another total BS Tarverism for the archives...

You might want to back off from being an archive troll, Weiss.

From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/28/2003 6:22 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...
The only way to disable the automatic YAW damper is to pull the circuit
breaker.

Ever heard of a fugoid? This is an F-4 related question, so don't blow
it.

What does a tendency to manually over control in pitch have tp do with
yaw?

Nope, go look it up.


No, YOU go look it up. Use F-4 as you suggested. You will find that fugoid
refers to a pilot's unintenional over control in pitch. You will also find that
this can lead to PIO.

Back to the subject at hand the yaw damper is used on big airplanes like the
KC-135 to reduce dutch rolls. It has nothing to do with coordinated turns.
Those har handled either manually or with AFCS.

Have a nice day.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"Tarver Engineering" wrote
If you feel that you are somehow a peer in this discussion, then I am afraid
you have joined those on the usenet that have taken leave of their senses.

You are a pretender.

From: "Gene Storey"
Date: 9/28/2003 8:14 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

"Tarver Engineering" wrote
"Gene Storey" wrote
"Tarver Engineering" wrote

The pilot flying keeps his feet on the rudder
pedals when hand-flying the aircraft.

An unsafe practice, for modern airliners.

Do you have a source for this? Seems far fetched, but I don't fly
airlines,

In 1972 FAA instituted an automation of airliners requirment.
Enterpolating
the number of passengers killed in that hand flying age to the number of
revenue flights today, hand flying predicts killing aproximately 5,000
passengers a year. Instead, man in the loop automated systems have turned
in two years of zero killed; for US common carriers since 1997.

Consider, you are more in hazard of dying of natural causes during an
Airliner ride, than you are to die in a crash. The statistics are such
today that a two man cockpit has become a statistical life saver, as a
small
number of Captains expire each year enroute.

So the answer is no, you don't have any source?

You have GOT to be kidding. Tarver has never, IIRC, provided sources or proof
of anything he has ever said.

As an example think of his invented term "pitot port." it took a couple of
years for him to admit he thought a pitot tube without integral static ports is
a "pitot port." All during that time he was asked repeatedly by several people
to provide at least one example of a "pitot port" and he only responded with
insults and vulgarities.
When he was proved wrong by most of us he either turned things around saying
that that was what he had said in the first place or accuses us of being one
of the "archive trolls."

Do a google search on him and he will tell you it is a conspiracy of those
"archive trolls." Better yet do searches using his name in various newsgroups
and you will find he is an expert on cars, government and many other things
too.

His latest pronouncement was that all aircraft were disgned on napkins. When
someone speaks in such absolutes he probably is clueless about the subject.

The question I have is: has anyone in this NG ever dealt with him personally or
ever actually used any of his products?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired