Safety finish rule & circle radius

One point of discussion in our little group has been:
How do you determine your height above the ground?
Altimeter? Pressure altitude? But there's a big
storm there. What's happened to the pressure? What's
the effect to the altitude shown on your altimeter?

GPS altitude? Which of our GPS's show gps and/or pressure
altitude?

BB suggested allowing the CD to call off the task.
This means you have to have your radio turned on.
Up to the pilot to keep the radio on.

Dang hard for me to thermal, especially when digging
out, which I find myself doing a lot, with the radio
on.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

On Sep 11, 11:06 am, Ray Lovinggood
GPS altitude? Which of our GPS's show gps and/or pressure
altitude?

It's not going to change by more than a few hundred feet, so as in any
other altitude restrictions, just add a personal fudge factor.

BB suggested allowing the CD to call off the task.
This means you have to have your radio turned on.
Up to the pilot to keep the radio on.

It should already be on in case another nearby pilot needs to make a
safety call to you.

Dang hard for me to thermal, especially when digging
out, which I find myself doing a lot, with the radio
on.

Remind me to stay clear of you in thermals! See above. I'm serious.

-Tom

Tom,

When I'm low and digging out, I don't need the distraction of the
radio. I just want to hear the vario and look outside. And when I'm
low, there's nobody down with me. Granted, in a contest, there's not
much going on over 123.3, except when you hear competitors calling in
"four miles" and "finish". When I'm digging out, hanging on by
fingernails, I don't need to hear that. Radio is off. But when I'm
up and when I suspect or know other gliders could be around or are
around, I'll have the radio on.

I've never had the "pleasure" of "digging out" with company. If I
ever do, the radio will be on.

And don't worry about flying with me. If we ever ended up at the same
contest, you would have to do a 180, hold your binoculars up, and look
way back along the course you just flew and way down. Also, look for
the non-moving glider on the ground.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Tom,

When I'm low and digging out, I don't need the distraction
of the radio. I just want to hear the vario and look
outside. And when I'm low, there's nobody down with
me. Granted, in a contest, there's not much going
on over 123.3, except when you hear competitors calling
in 'four miles' and 'finish'. When I'm digging out,
hanging on by fingernails, I don't need to hear that.
Radio is off. But when I'm up and when I suspect
or know other gliders could be around or are around,
I'll have the radio on.

I've never had the 'pleasure' of 'digging out' with
company. If I ever do, the radio will be on.

And don't worry about flying with me. If we ever ended
up at the same contest, you would have to do a 180,
hold your binoculars up, and look way back along the
course you just flew and way down. Also, look for
the non-moving glider on the ground.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA


At 17:31 11 September 2007, 5z wrote:
On Sep 11, 11:06 am, Ray Lovinggood
GPS altitude? Which of our GPS's show gps and/or pressure
altitude?

It's not going to change by more than a few hundred
feet, so as in any
other altitude restrictions, just add a personal fudge
factor.

BB suggested allowing the CD to call off the task.
This means you have to have your radio turned on.
Up to the pilot to keep the radio on.

It should already be on in case another nearby pilot
needs to make a
safety call to you.

Dang hard for me to thermal, especially when digging
out, which I find myself doing a lot, with the radio
on.

Remind me to stay clear of you in thermals! See above.
I'm serious.

-Tom

Tom,

When I'm low and digging out, I don't need the distraction
of the radio. I just want to hear the vario and look
outside. And when I'm low, there's nobody down with
me. Granted, in a contest, there's not much going
on over 123.3, except when you hear competitors calling
in 'four miles' and 'finish'. When I'm digging out,
hanging on by fingernails, I don't need to hear that.
Radio is off. But when I'm up and when I suspect
or know other gliders could be around or are around,
I'll have the radio on.

I've never had the 'pleasure' of 'digging out' with
company. If I ever do, the radio will be on.

And don't worry about flying with me. If we ever ended
up at the same contest, you would have to do a 180,
hold your binoculars up, and look way back along the
course you just flew and way down. Also, look for
the non-moving glider on the ground.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA


At 17:31 11 September 2007, 5z wrote:
On Sep 11, 11:06 am, Ray Lovinggood
GPS altitude? Which of our GPS's show gps and/or pressure
altitude?

It's not going to change by more than a few hundred
feet, so as in any
other altitude restrictions, just add a personal fudge
factor.

BB suggested allowing the CD to call off the task.
This means you have to have your radio turned on.
Up to the pilot to keep the radio on.

It should already be on in case another nearby pilot
needs to make a
safety call to you.

Dang hard for me to thermal, especially when digging
out, which I find myself doing a lot, with the radio
on.

Remind me to stay clear of you in thermals! See above.
I'm serious.

-Tom

Frank's suggestion of increasing the radius of the safety finish cone looks
like a good idea. If the concept (avoiding cu nims) is valid then the rule
should be structured to deal with the realities of meteorology. The Ohio
situation shows that the distance parameter (5 miles) is insufficient.

Extending the 20:1 minimum slope out another 5 miles will not give any
advantage because the scoring formula uses a speed of 60mph from the safety
fix home, while most gliders would actually be doing 40%-80% faster than
this. There is also the time "penalty" incurred due to the requirement to
climb higher than necessary, so it's a double whammy. The pilot has to "tank
up" but then doesn't get to convert the extra energy to speed.

If a pilot has flown a task such that she has achieved sufficient (and then
some) energy to get home, the rest is not a test of skill.

As for the luck factor of leaving "responsibly" early on a storm day, the
safety finish eliminates at least some of the storm-induced luck.

And without an adequate rule we are forcing pilots to make life (not going
into the storm) and death (while-knuckling home) choices. There are enough
other hazards in even a benign cross country flight that we shouldn't be
forcing folks to make a choice about flying into hazardous weather close to
the ground.

Karl Striedieck


"5Z" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 11, 11:06 am, Ray Lovinggood
GPS altitude? Which of our GPS's show gps and/or pressure
altitude?

It's not going to change by more than a few hundred feet, so as in any
other altitude restrictions, just add a personal fudge factor.

BB suggested allowing the CD to call off the task.
This means you have to have your radio turned on.
Up to the pilot to keep the radio on.

It should already be on in case another nearby pilot needs to make a
safety call to you.

Dang hard for me to thermal, especially when digging
out, which I find myself doing a lot, with the radio
on.

Remind me to stay clear of you in thermals! See above. I'm serious.

-Tom

Since I am a candidate for the rules committee, and I have received a
number of private inquiries as to my position on this issue I thought
I would post my thoughts publically. If you agree with my position
(or just my reasoning process) you can vote me in

I'll start with my opinions - but please read my reasoning:

1. The CD should not be able to change the safety finish radius
after the task has begun.

2. If the CD is allowed to chage it before the start it must be
required to be on the task sheet. I would vote no on a proposal to
allow this.

3. I don't think making the radius larger will dimish dangerous
behavior, but making the defined radius 10 miles is ok with me.

4. The safety finish, like the rolling finish should always be
available to the pilot at the pilot's discretion, albeit with a
slightly bigger scoring disincentive than the rolling finish.

5. For the sports class or any other time a cylinder finish is used,
the safety finish should be referenced to the cylinder height/radius.

On the face of it it seems like a no-brainer to allow the CD to
increase the radius of the safety finish in a case like the day at the
Sports Nationals. However as usual, the devil is in the details.

My base philosophy is that all competition rules, and especially those
related to flying the task should be as simple as possible with as
few "special cases" as possible - particularily once the task has
begun. KISS - especially since IQ seems to dive with canopy closure.

I was a contestant at the Sports Nationals on the day Frank writes
about. Also, I had a much too "up close an personal" encounter with
lightning for my taste while the safety finish was in effect (by
trying to make it to the field after doing a safety finish). So the 5
mile radius was not an issue in this case for me. By the accounts of
other pilots, at this contest the existance of the safety finish did
not effectively prevent the dangerous approach/landing behavior that
UH states it is for ("The safety finish was created in response to
watching "GPS Final Glides" in storms at Uvalde"). Except we were not
at Uvalde.

Now consider the following scenario. Competitors are returning on the
final leg of the task, coming from the East. From the West a 10 mile
radius thunderstorm is approaching the finish. At what point should
the CD open the safety finish and at what radius? Probably just as
the storm hits the airport 5 miles is enough. But then it needs to
keep increasing until it is maybe up to 20 miles. How does the CD
figure this all out in good time and effectively communicate it to
the pilots involved? Should the CD change the radius two or three
times?

I just don't see any right answer here, just lots of opportunities for
creating confusion.

Except for the safety finish, any changes to the task parameters once
gliders are launched require a roll call. The roll call ensures a
fair competition by making sure each pilot acknowledges receipt of
the revised information. However, it is impractical (and not a good
idea) to try to do a roll call for a safety finish; but the absence of
a roll call also introduces a potential unevenness in the playing
field since all pilots may not receive the information that the safety
finish is in effect.

Lots of things can make radio comms poor once out on course. Also at
the contest in question, the issue of communicating with the pilots
was complicated by one contestant having a radio that not only had a
chronically stuck mike (over a number of days) but also was so poor
that it spilled over onto 123.5. We were not able to do roll calls to
amend the task. It is fortunate that some were able to discern that
that safety finish was on, albeit with numerous transmissions for
clarification. Successfully communicating a radius would have been
very iffy.

So I do not like the idea of changing any task paramaters after the
task opens, in the interest of fairness and simplicity. This would
include the safety finish radius. This also argues that the safety
finish should be like the rolling finish - always available at the
pilot's discretion, but with an implicit scoring penalty (non
draconian) for using it.

Next is the basic concept of the safety finish. I see the safety
finish as a way of saying "If it is safe to approach the field (your
judgement) but not to land there, you can still get a 'gimme' on the
finish if you get withing 5 miles at a slope better than 200 feet per
mile." The concept of the "gimme" is important here. Everyone makes a
1 inch putt. Virtually all make a 6 inch putt. Even pros miss the
occasional 1 footer, etc. So at some radius the safety finish impacts
the skill-based part of the competition outcome.

I don't think there is any concept in the rules that supports the
philosophy that if you can make it to a proper final glide, the rules
should provide for you to get a speed finish in virtually all cases.

Also nowhere does it say that because the safety finish is in effect
it must therefore be safe to approach the airport within the radius.
That is a judgement exclusively for the pilot to make.

If the task was a TAT, with a ten mile TP circle that became
completely obliterated by a passing cell, I doubt anyone would argue
that the CD should be able to change that radius at that time so
pilots would not have to incur delays waiting to get in the circle.
Why should the finish be any different?

One of the elements of the competition is dealing with adverse weather
and after all, you get lots of lattitude in choosing the time you
start.

Lastly, the scoring rules are evolving to reduce the penalty for an
outlanding - which also makes safe behavior less costly.

Thanks for reading.
John Godfrey (QT)

I have thought a lot on this issue following that day. For me, the
safety cylinder didn't feel very safe. After trying to get into it,
and missing by less than a mile after things go so violent I sobered
up and turned around, I turned back for the last airport on course.
By the time I got there, the winds were gusting a 25+. Half of the 7
ships trying to land there were on 123.3, the other half on 123.0, the
field frequency. Turned final into "head-on" traffic, moved over, and
landed on top of a hill next to the airport (less than 100ft of "peak"
before a 200 foot dropoff).

Personally, I'd like to see the rule change in two ways:

1) Extend the safety cylinder to 10 miles (per TA, KS and others).
Some will say this requires too much "calculating" in the cockpit to
determine if you are above the 26:1 glide slope, but almost all modern
flight computers tell you L/D to a point, even Garmin handheld. If
you don't have one, get one. Or, cheaper yet, make yourself a "whiz-
wheel."
2) Specifically allow the CD to call of a day (BB's sugestion).

I considered adding a 3rd suggestion, such that if the safety cylinder
is activated less than 45 minutes before the minimum task time is up
from the point the task opened, the day is automatically scrubbed.
This was the situation at CCSC, where, if memory serves, the safety
cylinder was activated approx. 1 hour after the gate opened with 1
hour left for any competitor to achieve minimum time. This would put
CD's in the position, however, of trying to wait till that threshold
to get in a day to call the safety finish, however, and I think it may
be counter productive.

2C

QT wrote below--

I agree that the safety finish should always be an option. I would add a
variable, pilot selected, ad hoc, radius because the options are not always
the same. i.e. poor terrain for landing, dead air where the storm has been,
etc

If the pilot is above a slope that could lead him/her home easily, then
count 60 mph from where the flight breaks off toward an airport for landing,
turns around or goes clearly off course for a thermal. The scoring program
can figure a "constructive landout" so this could be programmed about the
same way. The safety slope is 26.4:1 (about McC 3.5-4 in a modern glider).
So calculate the closest point to the home field, above the 200ft/mi
glideslope and project 60 mph from there. There is of course an opportunity
to cheat here if one encounters heavy sink on final glide. Just bail out and
land and you get speed points at 60 mph. So, perhaps, the rule must include
a provision that a TSTM be in the way somehow.

The scoring disincentive is the 60 mph. It is rare that a modern glider
can't do much better than that on final.


Hartley Falbaum
DG 808C "KF" USA



"John Godfrey (QT)" wrote in message
ups.com...
Since I am a candidate for the rules committee, and I have received a


"4. The safety finish, like the rolling finish should always be
available to the pilot at the pilot's discretion, albeit with a
slightly bigger scoring disincentive than the rolling finish.

5. For the sports class or any other time a cylinder finish is used,
the safety finish should be referenced to the cylinder height/radius."

4. The safety finish, like the rolling finish should always be
available to the pilot at the pilot's discretion, albeit with a
slightly bigger scoring disincentive than the rolling finish.

snip
IMO the rolling finish should be eliminated now that we have GPS
finishes and we should simply apply a speed penalty for finishing low.
For example a 1 MPH penalty per 100 feet below the finish.. With the
current finish you can have a glider racing to the landing area
through a group of gliders that have already finished and are trying
to land normally. It seems to me that once you cross the finish line
either high or low the race should be over and pilots should
concentrate entirely on landing safely and not still be racing.

My base philosophy is that all competition rules, and especially those
related to flying the task should be as simple as possible with as
few "special cases" as possible - particularily once the task has
begun. KISS - especially since IQ seems to dive with canopy closure.

snip

I agree with the KISS principle. It seems to me the simplest way to do
this is make a very large radius safety finish. As previously
mentioned once the pilot has acheived a final glide to the airport the
race is basically over and there is little point in requiring the
pilot to fly the final glide when there is a safety issue involved. I
would recommend considering setting the safety finish radius at 50
miles and have the finish point be the point where the pilot acheives
the 200' per mile glide angle within that 50 mile radius.

I am still trying to decide if I think the speed should just be time
and distance to the finish point or to apply the 1 minute per mile
penalty to the normal finish line.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
HP16T "V6"