You mean I have to TALK to ATC? - long

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:56:28 -0700, Jay Honeck wrote:

I'm surprised to see that primary students are still flying VOR
radials.

The DE might be disappointed on the checkride if the student didn't know
what a VOR was.

:-)

--
Dallas

I was flying to Reno last week and there was a GPS outage part of the way
there. I had a couple guys with me and they just looked at me when the MX20
and the 296 went blank. I just tuned in to the next VOR and kept going 10
minutes later they came back.

Interesting. I've had a similar experience where I lost one (or two)
GPS's (for reasons unknown) -- but I've never lost *both* of them.

I'm not saying VORs don't have a place anymore. I'm just surprised to
hear primary students flying around solely by reference to them. It
seems rather quaint, with so many students training in glass
cockpits...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Interesting. I've had a similar experience where I lost one (or two)
GPS's (for reasons unknown) -- but I've never lost *both* of them.

Obviously that should read "...one (OF two) GPS's"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

All the whiz bang nonsense coming from the FAA is stupid
Go with what you know will work

I know you probably don't mean this quite so literally, but we'd still
be flying A/N radio ranges and following light beacons with that
attitude...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:50:57 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote:

It
seems rather quaint, with so many students training in glass
cockpits...

How many students AREN'T training behind glass?

Jay Honeck wrote:


I'm not saying VORs don't have a place anymore. I'm just surprised to
hear primary students flying around solely by reference to them. It
seems rather quaint, with so many students training in glass
cockpits...

I've never flown a glass cockpit, but they must use VOR navigation
devices like any other.

How many students AREN'T training behind glass?

Well, my 17-year-old son is training in an old, clapped out Cessna
150, just like a couple of generations before him...

The only thing glass in that plane is probably the electrical
insulators...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
How many students AREN'T training behind glass?

Well, my 17-year-old son is training in an old, clapped out Cessna
150, just like a couple of generations before him...

The only thing glass in that plane is probably the electrical
insulators...



I thought you were gonna say the vacuum tubes g

--
Doug Semler, MCPD
a.a. #705, BAAWA. EAC Guardian of the Horn of the IPU (pbuhh).
The answer is 42; DNRC o-
Gur Hfrarg unf orpbzr fb shyy bs penc gurfr qnlf, abbar rira
erpbtavmrf fvzcyr guvatf yvxr ebg13 nalzber. Fnq, vfa'g vg?

Jay Honeck writes:

Here we are, 13 years later, and apparently little has changed. We've
got a navigation system (GPS) that is accurate to within a meter, and
yet the entire system is still built around VORs, which is accurate to
within...a lot. (Anyone know how accurate it is to be flying a VOR
radial say, 30 miles from the VOR station? Is it a mile? A half
mile? 1000 feet? I have no idea...)

I suggest it's a case of accepting bothersome but known and well-quantified
risks rather than accepting unknown and unquantified risks. The behavior of
VORs is well understood; the potential problems with GPS are not.

But I do know this: In the real world of (relatively unregulated) VFR
flying, GPS rules. The fact that the IFR system hasn't completed the
change-over in a decade is just another example of how glacial
progress can be in aviation.

In IFR, your life depends on the instruments; in VFR, it does not. So VFR can
afford to take risks with instruments that would be potentially deadly with
IFR.

Jay Honeck writes:

I know you probably don't mean this quite so literally, but we'd still
be flying A/N radio ranges and following light beacons with that
attitude...

GPS will be more widely used once experience has proved that it can be
trusted.